MotoGP

Helge

Well-known member
Hot hot race at Sachsenring...the same at Rammstein concert in Düsseldorf for me ;)
Perfect ride from FQ20 👍👍 Pecco is out for the title :( Jack with a good answer to the long lap penalty :cool:
Looking forward to go to Assen/NL next weekend :cool:
 

FTR London

Well-known member
Nothing really to say about last weekend. I couldn't be arsed. You could never accuse this sport of being dull and certainly not predictable, but Sachsenring was such a disappointment for multiple reasons.

Going into 'The Cathedral' you can always find your faith, (particularly since the Dutch TT moved to a Sunday) although it took years to get over the loss of 'Old Assen' - as one journalist aptly put it at the time, it was tantamount to taking an original Rembrandt and cropping it into a clip frame. Since then, it's been like recovering from a bereavement. So many memories of the annual pilgrimage to watch Foggy in World Supers and his indomitable corner speed around here. Saying that, what is still a fast flowing circuit beautifully cambered circuit up there with Mugello and Phillip Island rarely disappoints and the Moto 3 race today was simply spectacular. Fabulous racing. The pace of the leading pack was astonishing. Muñoz fucks up again - and takes out McPhee and Masia in the process. First win for Sasaki though. Clever form Sergio Garcia. Wonderful stuff.

Moto2 - great front row. No love loss between Dixon and Arenas and good to see Lowes up there with his fellow Brit - until Turn 1 as it turned out. Another brilliant, combative race. Incredible ride from Ogura given his problems with the rear. Fernández got the job done - a well measured ride from the third row. Didn't have the pace to break away, bided his time.

GP - Pecco on the soft front, Fabio and Aleix on the medium - surprising choice, didn't affect the crash, because it was an uncharacteristically rash move which ruined Aleix's race and damaged his title bid. Nasty off for Fabio, who was sent back out by his team. Looked like a TC rather than an aero issue. At least he wasn't hurt and now has the summer break. Aleix at least gifted by the standard Nakagami fuck up. Then that pass through the super fast Ramshoek, followed by another through the Geert Timmer chicane - at the same time it started raining. Fourth place from being relegated to 15th! Unreal. Passed Binder and Miller through the chicane on the last lap. Best ride of his career. Sheer heroics!

Congratulations to Pecco, 66 points behind with nine rounds remaining. First podium for Bezzecchi.

Again, what the hell is going on with Morbidelli? Seemed all at sea all weekend, a rolling roadblock in practive, then failed to take his long lap penalty which he knew he had to take coming into the race - resulting in two, then way offline, loses the front. I find this even more bizarre than Mav's tailspin....(although I can't see him intentionally attempting to trash an M1 engine like Viñales. Talking of whom, first Aprilia podium.

Raúl Fernández perhaps the biggest disappointment of the season alongside Morbidelli - rumours of a move back to Moto 2.
 

edgelett

Well-known member
that was intense!
Watched Moto3, great race with brilliant last 5 laps as usual.
missed Moto2

MotoGP holy hell - that was a very uncharactaristic crash from Fabio and it stuffed Aleix's race but it was good to see him go and apologise and the two riders to chat on friendly terms again afterwards. I know they're friends off track so I'm glad this didn't affect that. Aleix would have grabbed a podium otherwise I'm sure.
Fabio's bike was missing heaps of aero through so would have been a pig to ride, really surprised he came in, went back out and then crashed. clearly something was wrong, that highside was nasty.

Great to see Bezzecchi get his first podium, the VR46 team is slowly improving this year and I expect to see better results for them again next year.
I admit I had written Vinales off so that was a great result.
Miller was SO CLOSE but made a mistake, and that was one hell of a passing move. well done to Aleix.

Now for a bit of a break before Silverstone.
 

FTR London

Well-known member
This was pretty fucking cool.

I need to get to the Festival of Speed again. Always entertaining and a lovely part of the UK.
 

R. Warshawsky

Active member
Not my intention to sully this thread, but I have never bought into the Rossi hagiography or this GOAT nonsense.

Followed him from the 125 class in which his formidable talent was immediately obvious. As charismatic as Sheene, clinical as Lawson and uncompromising on track as Doohan. His best season for me was 2001 and his first 500cc world title. 2002 and the introduction of the V5 was an absolute farce and the much heralded move to Yamaha in 2004 was accompanied by a choice of three engines and a gazillion changes to the M1 which up until then had been a virtual career wrecker. His vanity motivated move to Ducati was folly in the extreme and despite the desperate revisionist efforts of the Vale-ban and the attempts of his fanatical followers to re-write history, brutally exposed his flaws and his weaknesses in the absence of the substantial comparative advantage that had favoured him for most of his career at the expense of other riders. Regarding him remaining in the paddock, commercially, that's beneficial for DORNA of course, but over the last decade his influence together with the yellow smoke blown up his arse and much of his moronic following that aren't here for the sport has become increasingly toxic.

The actual GOAT? The cards were similarly stacked in Ago's favour, and as much as I loved the holy trinity of King Kenny, Lawson and Rainey - Hailwood could ride anything. That's your man. Aside from that, the most naturally talented riders that I've ever seen are Spencer, Stoner and Marquez.

I'll fondly remember many of Rossi's brilliant rides - trackside Donington 2005 was one of the most incredible wet weather performances I've ever seen, but as a follower of the sport as opposed to the cult of personality, I won't miss the man himself in the slightest.

Sorry.
Some say Calvin Rayborn, Jr., was the best. My vote is for King Kenny...
 

FTR London

Well-known member
Some say Calvin Rayborn, Jr., was the best. My vote is for King Kenny...
I've always loved the flat track pedigree and many of the greatest ever riders to grace road racing came from the dirt. Rayborn was no exception and for me one of his greatest legacies was smoking the UK riders during the Tran-Atlantic match races of the early 70s on very challenging circuits he'd never ridden astride those iron barreled XRs.

Regarding The King, I never tire of this...


One of my favourite recollections from GP? - Sheene vs Roberts, Silverstone 1979. I was there as a kid. They agreed to put on a show for the crowd, and then go balls out for the last five laps. Barry would have just edged it were it not for backing off around Woodcote and losing his drive due to backmarker - one George Fogarty. Talking of famous racer progenitors, Graziano Rossi was also in that race.

The famous two-fingered 'wave'...


Ex ice-racer Jarno Saarinen was another God-like talent that was taken from the sport far too soon and with the gifts and potential to have been one of the greats. Like Hailwood, Spencer and Stoner, his talent was unearthly. On Stoner, in terms of riding talent, he became the archetype. He achieved the perfect balance between fast-loose and wheels in line corner speed, and he could alter the balance of his style turn by turn or lap by lap to optimize his lap time.

Many riders measure themselves by how much faster they are than the competition. Casey clearly measured himself by how fast he was compared to his own expectations.

Rossi is obviously one of the greats, but his talents were augmented by preferential treatment from Michelin, and when it disappeared, he reacted with incredible bile, publicly condemning Michelin for choosing Honda's development path in 2007 when overnight specials were outlawed. It doesn't cast a pall over his incredible talents, but these carefully orchestrated race wins by an ebullient maestro were machinations of Michelin's marketing department. Also. assuming parity in terms of lack of preferential treatment, equipment and minus the huge comparative advantage, Rossi's championships would have looked like 2008 and beyond - gritty battles with a sprinkle of extra-legal chicanery. There have been previous legendary rivalries that transcended racing such as Rainey and Schwantz, but with the exception of Nicky, (imo, one of the most humble and noble riders to ever grace the paddock), his disdain anyone that threatened him was tiresome. The contempt for Max was I guess understandable, the pettiness against Gibernau was pathetic, the dislike of Stoner simply his own inadequacy, this hissy fits over his teammate Lorenzo, frankly embarrassing and the vitriol against Márquez and subsequent conspiracy theories, just deranged. That his canary/custard cum-shot coloured fanatical devotees remained oblivious to all this is all the more bewildering, but since 70% of them have predictably packed away the yellow paraphernalia and deserted the sport is in the long-term, for the better. I can't abide disingenuity and insincerity in people and such character defects certainly don't qualify someone as 'the greatest of all time'.

There are many historical greats in this fine sport...but if I was forced to choose just one, then it is unlikely that Hailwood will ever be surpassed in my lifetime.
 
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R. Warshawsky

Active member
I've always loved the flat track pedigree and many of the greatest ever riders to grace road racing came from the dirt. Rayborn was no exception and for me one of his greatest legacies was smoking the UK riders during the Tran-Atlantic match races of the early 70s on very challenging circuits he'd never ridden astride those iron barreled XRs.

Regarding The King, I never tire of this...


One of my favourite recollections from GP? - Sheene vs Roberts, Silverstone 1979. I was there as a kid. They agreed to put on a show for the crowd, and then go balls out for the last five laps. Barry would have just edged it were it not for backing off around Woodcote and losing his drive due to backmarker - one George Fogarty. Talking of famous racer progenitors, Graziano Rossi was also in that race.

The famous two-fingered 'wave'...


Ex ice-racer Jarno Saarinen was another God-like talent that was taken from the sport far too soon and with the gifts and potential to have been one of the greats. Like Hailwood, Spencer and Stoner, his talent was unearthly. On Stoner, in terms of riding talent, he became the archetype. He achieved the perfect balance between fast-loose and wheels in line corner speed, and he could alter the balance of his style turn by turn or lap by lap to optimize his lap time.

Many riders measure themselves by how much faster they are than the competition. Casey clearly measured himself by how fast he was compared to his own expectations.

Rossi is obviously one of the greats, but his talents were augmented by preferential treatment from Michelin, and when it disappeared, he reacted with incredible bile, publicly condemning Michelin for choosing Honda's development path in 2007 when overnight specials were outlawed. It doesn't cast a pall over his incredible talents, but these carefully orchestrated race wins by an ebullient maestro were machinations of Michelin's marketing department. Also. assuming parity in terms of lack of preferential treatment, equipment and minus the huge comparative advantage, Rossi's championships would have looked like 2008 and beyond - gritty battles with a sprinkle of extra-legal chicanery. There have been previous legendary rivalries that transcended racing such as Rainey and Schwantz, but with the exception of Nicky, (imo, one of the most humble and noble riders to ever grace the paddock), his disdain anyone that threatened him was tiresome. The contempt for Max was I guess understandable, the pettiness against Gibernau was pathetic, the dislike of Stoner simply his own inadequacy, this hissy fits over his teammate Lorenzo, frankly embarrassing and the vitriol against Márquez and subsequent conspiracy theories, just deranged. That his canary/custard cum-shot coloured fanatical devotees remained oblivious to all this is all the more bewildering, but since 70% of them have predictably packed away the yellow paraphernalia and deserted the sport is in the long-term, for the better. I can't abide disingenuity and insincerity in people and such character defects certainly don't qualify someone as 'the greatest of all time'.

There are many historical greats in this fine sport...but if I was forced to choose just one, then it is unlikely that Hailwood will ever be surpassed in my lifetime.
It was pretty cool when he won the Isle of Man on the Ducati, great stuff.
 

FTR London

Well-known member
A rider that gets hugely overlooked is John Kocinski. A flawed genius, comically OCD and one of the most bizarre and eccentric characters in the history of motorcycle racing. If you're not familiar with it, find out about 'fishes {sic} on the circuit'. Had he at any point in his career had a bike actually engineered and developed around his style, like Rossi, Lorenzo or Márquez he would have been indomitable. His awkward and difficult personality however made him a nightmare to work with and since his policy was to burn bridges as opposed to building them, he alienated many of the teams and factories he worked with and was remembered as more of a pariah than the enormous talent that he was - so never established himself. The guy was superb on a 250 - three consecutive AMA titles and one World Championship in his maiden year (plus the Daytona supersport race in 1989) and in 1990 raced in four different championships and won two championships for Honda in WSBk on the RC45 which even Foggy failed to make his mark on. He also won on 'that' Cagiva - their first victory. He always said that adapting to the 500 which had broken so many wasn't the issue, he understood it very quickly, it was experience and knowledge about set up that was so crucial and for that, you need time and support. As soon as the tyres start going off in a race, that's when the guys who knew how to set up a 500cc GP bike such as Rainey and Lawson came into their own. Not a likeable individual for sure at the time. I remember him denying Simon Crafar his only win in 108 WSBk races by pulling the same shit controversial move that had cost Aaron Slight second place in the championship. Certainly, nowhere remotely near the status or the pedigree of the 'greats' but highly misunderstood and in terms of talent alone, it's very much a case of what could have been.

Which reminds me of the Mercurial talent of Aussie, Garry McCoy and his sideways antics for WCM on the 16.5 inch tyre. It had been successfully used some years before - notably Schwantz amongst others. Unfortunately, once he started winning on it, the rest of the paddock, largely on 17s started demanding it in a useable form - and inevitably, once the overnight specials started arriving, (which particularly favoured one rider who need not be mentioned), McCoy's advantage was lost. Oh well, it was definitely fun while it lasted...

uz9pspgr4ps61.jpg
 

edgelett

Well-known member
well - i fell asleep lmao.
Not cause the race was boring but I had a HUGE weekend and was exhausted.
I was awake long enough to see Zarco fall off.
Congrats to Pecco, nice to see Vinales get a podium and Miller too, his front just died with about 6 laps to go but he's doing MUCH better at managing tyres now.

Championship a little closer due to that long lap penalty too.
 

Helge

Well-known member
Good to see MotoGP back at great Silverstone circuit after a looong summer break.
Bad highsider from AE41 at FP4 but good result in the race only one place behind FQ20 because he took the wrong rear tyre.
Exciting championchip furthermore.
 

FTR London

Well-known member
Shame to see so many leaving yesterday prior to Moto 2 which was an outstanding race. Those that remained treated Dixon's podium like a win.

Incredible ride from Bastianini again on that antique Ducati, minus a wing following a collision at the start (but did anyone spot Zarco's gremlin bell fly off on lap 4?). Shame Aleix was hurting - could have taken some valuable points of Quartararo. You could envisage Pecco putting post season break run together - but it might not be enough. Former GP winner at the circuit Viñales put together one of his customary late race charges. Haven't seen that for a while.

Good weekend throughout in uncharacteristically beautiful weather for 'Shiverstone'.
 

edgelett

Well-known member
For a change, I actually caught the Moto 2 and 3 races today! both very exciting with an awesome last 5 laps as always.
that crash though- yikes!

as for MotoGP - great race, stoked to see Miller on the podium again. not sure what happened to the Beast's bike but looked like he had no brakes? scary stuff.

Donna announced a few changes on the weekend too - there's now going to be a sprint race every round on the Saturday. Some riders love it, others hate it. I'm willing to give it a chance. at least Miller won't run out of tyres doe a change lmao!

few changes at KTM too, not sure what it means foe Remy Gardner but looks like his teammate is definitely gone. waiting for more info on that one.
 

FTR London

Well-known member
I
For a change, I actually caught the Moto 2 and 3 races today! both very exciting with an awesome last 5 laps as always.
that crash though- yikes!

as for MotoGP - great race, stoked to see Miller on the podium again. not sure what happened to the Beast's bike but looked like he had no brakes? scary stuff.

Donna announced a few changes on the weekend too - there's now going to be a sprint race every round on the Saturday. Some riders love it, others hate it. I'm willing to give it a chance. at least Miller won't run out of tyres doe a change lmao!

few changes at KTM too, not sure what it means foe Remy Gardner but looks like his teammate is definitely gone. waiting for more info on that one.
Bizarre - I assumed that same, but it transpires (as I'm sure you have read by now) that Bastianini broke the wheel in a freak impact with the curb on turn 10. Take nothing away from Fabio who was expected to be relegated to sixth or seventh by the Ducati dominance. Not only did he almost perfectly manage and calculate the race with his choice of the hard front but that pass on Miller and Martin was masterful. Must have taken some of the off Pecco's treble. Misano will be interesting, Ducati test track but a circuit very much favoured by both.

Really felt for Aleix who had his race butchered by the malfunctioning ride height device at the start.

Moto 3 - Superb ride from Sasaki after the disappointment of Silverstone and the double penalty. Starting to tire of Öncü's aggression and gesticulating.

Moto 2 - Vietti, having lost the Championship lead last round, scoring no points this weekend. Honda Asia 1 and 2 - what a finish. Quality pass by Chantra and a Dovi-esque cut back from Ogura. While that was going off, Dixon claims a second podium. Nasty situation potentially between Dalla Porta and Arbolino - looked like a false neutral.

I had high hopes for Raúl Fernández, just didn't happen this year in frankly what is sadly now a very uncompetitive team. As we know, Beirer calls the shots not Poncharal and as you say, it's confirmed that they are parting ways. I should imagine that his namesake Augusto will be a natural successor at some point. We'll have to see what the final GasGas decision is on Oliveira and Pol because, you're absolutely right, I'm not certain that Gardner's future is assured.

Looks like the hapless Nakagami will be offered another year with Ogura reluctant to come up. Nothing whatsoever to do with the current state of the RCV213v of course. :whistle:
 

edgelett

Well-known member
Really felt for Aleix who had his race butchered by the malfunctioning ride height device at the start.
I wondered what happened there...

and how's Chantra not seeing the 'p2 ok' message haha.

yeah Fabio is having a great year and likely to win the championship again this year.
I look forward to seeing that happens in 2023 when Marquez returns, unfit and out of practice, to a competition where Fabio and Bagnaia are top of their game.

I lost interest in Raul Fernandez when he made that 'Remy might be the world champion but I'm the moral champion' comment. What a tosser.
and although it's likely KTM wouldn't keep him, fact is he left himself voluntarily.

Remy may sadly have to go back to Moto2 or move to WSB.
 

edgelett

Well-known member
LOTS of crashes this week. most bummed about Miller of cours.

but wow what an awesome few last laps from Pecco and the Beast!!!
 
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