The Harley-Davidson and Indian Wars

Wayne

Active member
The California Air Resources Board (CARB) set up a plan to gradually force the off-road motorcycle manufactures to eventually produce bikes that met clean air standards, essentially smog legal. It began in '04 with the red and green sicker program. Red sticker meant you could only ride in the months of October 1 through April 30. Green sticker were bikes that were typically dual purpose and street legal which met the emission standards. These are not serious dirt bikes with exception of a few European models such as KTM, Gas GAS, Husqvarna etc. Even at that those are heavy, have lights emissions equipment and are neither great dirt bikes nor street bikes. During that phase private and BLM land was exempted as was closed course competition events. Beginning January 1, '22 motorcycles that did not comply with emission standards could not be registered with the DMV for off road use and the red sticker/ green sticker program was eliminated. If you buy a '22 or newer dirt bike the only place you can legally ride it is on a racetrack that is privately owned. The BLM is also enforcing this as well. In California we have an amazing network of state off road recreational vehicle parks https://ohv.parks.ca.gov/ which are paid for in part by the red /green sicker program. Unfortunately, if you purchase a '22 or newer dirt bike you can compete on a track or practice a limited number of days at a track but that is it. pre '03 dirt bikes are grand fathered and can be ridden all year. '03 - '21 can ride half the year. I had just sold my two KTM's motocross bikes surprisingly fast and at a very high price in '20. I went to replace them when I was informed of the current law. I was able to sell them both in less that 30 minutes sight unseen because they had become in such high demand given the new law and the renewed interest in off road recreation due to Covid -19. My KTM, Husky, Gas GAs and Honda dealer which specialized in off road closed shortly thereafter as I'm sure is going to be the case with many similar dealers. I am a long time AMA member and try to stay up on all the impending legislation but somehow overlooked this one.
 

Walrus

Active member
I've gone full circle - from (silently) sneering at Harleys with utter engineering contempt to now saying it's my favorite brand, sort of the Rolex of motorcycles. Generally outdated, hide-bound by tradition, over-priced but usually handsome. I find the paint quality peerless, the engines uniquely fabulous (at least the modernish ones) and the fit and finish superb.
My 2022 Fat Boy is likely my favorite bike I've ever owned - and I've had 30 or more just in the last decade. Looks good, is fast, Good brakes etc. Of course a matter of taste. Prior to 2010 my previous Harley was a mid-60s Sportster, which was traded on the amazing Honda 750 four and I never looked back. Now there are five Harleys in the garage with Japanese and Italian products.
Obviously, I own an Indian (FTR), but after many test rides the rest of the Indian line doesn't do it for me. Harley is the standard (despite recent Indian mag review wins, which also hail the BMW) for American-style cruising. But I'm not rabid.
Also never understodd Harley fans Japan brand bashing.
 

DJ121

Member
I've gone full circle - from (silently) sneering at Harleys with utter engineering contempt to now saying it's my favorite brand, sort of the Rolex of motorcycles. Generally outdated, hide-bound by tradition, over-priced but usually handsome. I find the paint quality peerless, the engines uniquely fabulous (at least the modernish ones) and the fit and finish superb.
My 2022 Fat Boy is likely my favorite bike I've ever owned - and I've had 30 or more just in the last decade. Looks good, is fast, Good brakes etc. Of course a matter of taste. Prior to 2010 my previous Harley was a mid-60s Sportster, which was traded on the amazing Honda 750 four and I never looked back. Now there are five Harleys in the garage with Japanese and Italian products.
Obviously, I own an Indian (FTR), but after many test rides the rest of the Indian line doesn't do it for me. Harley is the standard (despite recent Indian mag review wins, which also hail the BMW) for American-style cruising. But I'm not rabid.
Also never understodd Harley fans Japan brand bashing.
I'm envious of you having all those bikes, that's awesome and totally understand your love affair with the Harley. "Variety IS the spice of life" and life would be sooooo boring if we all liked the same bikes. :)
 

DJ121

Member
I've gone full circle - from (silently) sneering at Harleys with utter engineering contempt to now saying it's my favorite brand, sort of the Rolex of motorcycles. Generally outdated, hide-bound by tradition, over-priced but usually handsome. I find the paint quality peerless, the engines uniquely fabulous (at least the modernish ones) and the fit and finish superb.
My 2022 Fat Boy is likely my favorite bike I've ever owned - and I've had 30 or more just in the last decade. Looks good, is fast, Good brakes etc. Of course a matter of taste. Prior to 2010 my previous Harley was a mid-60s Sportster, which was traded on the amazing Honda 750 four and I never looked back. Now there are five Harleys in the garage with Japanese and Italian products.
Obviously, I own an Indian (FTR), but after many test rides the rest of the Indian line doesn't do it for me. Harley is the standard (despite recent Indian mag review wins, which also hail the BMW) for American-style cruising. But I'm not rabid.
Also never understodd Harley fans Japan brand bashing.
P.s. Right now I have the FTR R Carbon which I love, and I also have a Can Am Ryker which I hoped would be my wife's bike (ain't happening, she won't ride it, or any bike after a few bad experiences) and I love riding the Ryker, it's inexplicably fun to ride. My fellow retired Vets are trying to convince me to buy an enduro to go ride with them, so I'm thinking, should I sell the Ryker in order to buy an enduro or keep and and save up for the enduro?
 

edgelett

Well-known member
I've gone full circle - from (silently) sneering at Harleys with utter engineering contempt to now saying it's my favorite brand, sort of the Rolex of motorcycles. Generally outdated, hide-bound by tradition, over-priced but usually handsome. I find the paint quality peerless, the engines uniquely fabulous (at least the modernish ones) and the fit and finish superb.
My husband sold his 2016 Harley Roadster to buy an FTR. the fit and finish on the Indian is a LOT better than the Harley.
maybe he got a Friday bike, or maybe they improved. but he says looking at my FTR and seeing the quality contributed to his change.
 

DJ121

Member
My husband sold his 2016 Harley Roadster to buy an FTR. the fit and finish on the Indian is a LOT better than the Harley.
maybe he got a Friday bike, or maybe they improved. but he says looking at my FTR and seeing the quality contributed to his change.
I also was looking at the Roadster! Last 4 bikes were 1. SuperDuke R, 2. Harley XR-1200 3. Buell XB12 4. Harley Sportster XL 1200S. So I've had a love affair with Harley, but as you said, none of those compare to this Indian :)
 

edgelett

Well-known member
he really did enjoy his Roadster for the 6 years he had it, it was great for blasts through the twisties and commuting but our first long trip away in years I was on the FTR and he was very jealous of the cruise control and decent suspension (his spine and hand killed after day 1).
and although it was a fun bike it just didn't compare to the FTR.
 
D

Deleted member 706

Guest
I'm spoiled now I won't consider anything without cruise control from now on.
 

Walrus

Active member
P.s. Right now I have the FTR R Carbon which I love, and I also have a Can Am Ryker which I hoped would be my wife's bike (ain't happening, she won't ride it, or any bike after a few bad experiences) and I love riding the Ryker, it's inexplicably fun to ride. My fellow retired Vets are trying to convince me to buy an enduro to go ride with them, so I'm thinking, should I sell the Ryker in order to buy an enduro or keep and and save up for the enduro?
If you like the Ryker keep it and, if you can afford it, by an enduro. Life is short, so have fun.
 

Walrus

Active member
My husband sold his 2016 Harley Roadster to buy an FTR. the fit and finish on the Indian is a LOT better than the Harley.
maybe he got a Friday bike, or maybe they improved. but he says looking at my FTR and seeing the quality contributed to his change.
The FTR is very well made. Not knocking Indian, just think Harley has better paint. But Indian cruisers are very well made.
 

Walrus

Active member
I'm spoiled now I won't consider anything without cruise control from now on.
Agree!!!! My first date with cruise control was a 2007 BMW K1200 GT. Love it. Installed an Australian real-life cc on my Hayabusa and have it back-ordered on my Fat Boy. It's a game changer.
 

DJ121

Member
If you like the Ryker keep it and, if you can afford it, by an enduro. Life is short, so have fun.
Yes, once it gets out of Warranty Work, I'll consider keeping it, I love to ride it, and at least my wife and I can ride two up :) Maybe in the future I'll get that used, cheap enduro, up to now, I've needed it for my Bigfoot Research group who rides to locations on their enduros, so I used my lifted Subaru CrossTrek Hybrid to go on those Bigfoot trips, basically anywhere they can go, across streams etc :)
 

broncoguy27

Active member
I've gone full circle - from (silently) sneering at Harleys with utter engineering contempt to now saying it's my favorite brand, sort of the Rolex of motorcycles. Generally outdated, hide-bound by tradition, over-priced but usually handsome. I find the paint quality peerless, the engines uniquely fabulous (at least the modernish ones) and the fit and finish superb.
My 2022 Fat Boy is likely my favorite bike I've ever owned - and I've had 30 or more just in the last decade. Looks good, is fast, Good brakes etc. Of course a matter of taste. Prior to 2010 my previous Harley was a mid-60s Sportster, which was traded on the amazing Honda 750 four and I never looked back. Now there are five Harleys in the garage with Japanese and Italian products.
Obviously, I own an Indian (FTR), but after many test rides the rest of the Indian line doesn't do it for me. Harley is the standard (despite recent Indian mag review wins, which also hail the BMW) for American-style cruising. But I'm not rabid.
Also never understodd Harley fans Japan brand bashing.
I've never really been into the cruiser thing, and $30,000 for 70 horse never did it for me.
The whole brand bashing thing is what totally turned me off to harley. If you stuff something in my face and start screaming about it, there's a very good chance I will never want one. I think it may be an insecurity thing, they just spent way above the price point to get a name and a peer group of mostly leather clad wannabees perched atop Chrome barges...
 

broncoguy27

Active member
Agree!!!! My first date with cruise control was a 2007 BMW K1200 GT. Love it. Installed an Australian real-life cc on my Hayabusa and have it back-ordered on my Fat Boy. It's a game changer.
I loved my k1600 gt. It was too big and heavy for the off camber gravel driveway I had to turn it around on and unless I was going for a long ride I didn't take it which led me to get rid of it. Really wish I hadn't cuz I can't afford to replace it
 

broncoguy27

Active member
Yes, once it gets out of Warranty Work, I'll consider keeping it, I love to ride it, and at least my wife and I can ride two up :) Maybe in the future I'll get that used, cheap enduro, up to now, I've needed it for my Bigfoot Research group who rides to locations on their enduros, so I used my lifted Subaru CrossTrek Hybrid to go on those Bigfoot trips, basically anywhere they can go, across streams etc :)
Tell me it's not one of the groups of college kids you see on TV who run around pounding on trees and screaming at each other while wondering why they never see wildlife??? Lol.
 

DJ121

Member
I thought cruise control was the stupidest thing in the world until I did my first 600 MI day, and after the first bike I owned that had it, I was ruined. Absolutely agree it's not necessary but it's close
Can't tell you how much I love Cruise Control on anything!!
 

broncoguy27

Active member
Can't tell you how much I love Cruise Control on anything!!
I spend a lot of windshield time at work, like 100,000 miles and 14 months. Anytime it's safe I use the cruise so I can move my feet around a little bit. And having it on a bike means you can shift your weight and move your right arm a little bit.
 
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