The running thread for off topic discussions

ferraiolo1

ferraiolo1

2021-2024 IMR Ambassador
Staff member
Think of it how you may, but that is the answer to their issues, since Indian has failed miserably to make every one of their FTRs run the same.

People ask for a solution, "get a tune" is the one solution that 99% of the time works. Since, as of now, there is nothing your dealer or Indian can/will do to resolve ones running issues, even with the oem 2.0 tune. Whomever the owner decides they want tuning their bike or their dealer, is where questions such as warranties should be directed, not a forum.

And yes if someone is that worried about their warranty, they shouldnt alter a single thing on their bike for two years.

New EPA regs are what killed smooth running vehicles, i tune every new vehicle i buy right off the lot, same with bikes. I personally rather have a well running machine i can enjoy, than "deal" with its quirks for years waiting for a warranty that may or may not be voided to run out. Thats been my stance for over a year with the FTR, and its well known, forum mod or not.
 
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Deleted member 677

Guest
ferraiolo1 said:
Think of it how you may, but that is the answer to their issues, since Indian has failed miserably to make every one of their FTRs run the same.

People ask for a solution, "get a tune" is the one solution that 99% of the time works. Since, as of now, there is nothing your dealer or Indian can/will do to resolve ones running issues, even with the oem 2.0 tune. Whomever the owner decides they want tuning their bike or their dealer, is where questions such as warranties should be directed, not a forum.

And yes if someone is that worried about their warranty, they shouldnt alter a single thing on their bike for two years.

New EPA regs are what killed smooth running vehicles, i tune every new vehicle i buy right off the lot, same with bikes. I personally rather have a well running machine i can enjoy, than "deal" with its quirks for years waiting for a warranty that may or may not be voided to run out. Thats been my stance for over a year with the FTR, and its well known, forum mod or not.
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I agree completley! I have always tuned and uncorked all the EPA crap from my bikes. My last bike was an MT-09. Before the first oil change, I removed the cat, secondary air injection (AIS) O2 sensors (for a full Arrow exhaust), and re flashed the ECU. I don't need them to fart flowers, I need then to run right and haul butt! The weight savings is always a bonus as well. I have no emission checks where I live. But I always keep all the stuff I remove, just incase. I feel that an O2 delete plug, might make the cold start issues better for the FTR. It smoothed out my Triumphs and a few others I've had. It seems like the switch off between open loop to closed loop freaks something out. Just a thought.
 
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cupcake_mike

Active member
ferraiolo1 said:
People ask for a solution, "get a tune" is the one solution that 99% of the time works. Since, as of now, there is nothing your dealer or Indian can/will do to resolve ones running issues, even with the oem 2.0 tune. Whomever the owner decides they want tuning their bike or their dealer, is where questions such as warranties should be directed, not a forum.
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Well, that's certainly a run back on your part from the canned "get a tune, it wont void your warranty" talk you've been posting all along (at least the last few months i've been on the forum and the facebook group).

Never once did I say that anyone shouldn't do whatever the hell they want with their bike. It does make my head hurt when guys are throwing tunes on to "fix" problems before the first break-in oil change. Wanting more performance or looks or whatever is one thing but the assumption that some vehicle is shit tuned from the factory, without even giving the computer a thousand or 2 miles to learn what the hell is going on is a a ridiculous way to go about things, be it a car, truck or bike, in my opinion. Indian can't make them all run the same when every dick, bob or harry wants to change up the variables and then gets pissed that the ecm didn't use telepathy to know exactly what they are looking for (it will learn and break-in-as will you, but it takes some time). Impatience isn't a virtue.

Haven't you've had like 7 or 8 exhausts and 15-20 different tunes on your bike in less than 15k miles? Excuse me if I don't think you are the best person to be giving advice about how well a "stock" FTR does or doesn't run, you simply have no baseline to work from.
 
edgelett

edgelett

Well-known member
cupcake_mike said:
Wanting more performance or looks or whatever is one thing but the assumption that some vehicle is shit tuned from the factory, without even giving the computer a thousand or 2 miles to learn what the hell is going on is a a ridiculous way to go about things, be it a car, truck or bike.
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I didn't tune mine till after the first service, which I got done at 800kms. I let it go another week after that before putting on my tune.
I'm happy with my decision and I have just over a year left on my warranty now anyway.
 
K9F

K9F

Well-known member
Didn’t tune mine until 10 months old and nearly 3K on the clock. Went into it eyes wide open and not overly particular as to what effect it may or may not have had on warranty? That will be a bridge to cross should anything untoward occur in the next 10 months of any remaining warranty.
Perhaps wish I’d done it sooner as kept telling myself “This bike is ok with it’s quirks and foibles and with my experience I can get the best out of it!” How wrong was I?
 
ferraiolo1

ferraiolo1

2021-2024 IMR Ambassador
Staff member
cupcake_mike said:
Haven't you've had like 7 or 8 exhausts and 15-20 different tunes on your bike in less than 15k miles? Excuse me if I don't think you are the best person to be giving advice about how well a "stock" FTR does or doesn't run, you simply have no baseline to work from.
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Um I had a stock ftr for a while as the baseline. And it’s called trial and error. To see what works/sounds the best. Vs just fapping online with no personal experience. I have personally experienced several different variations of tunes, mods, and exhausts to find the best overall combo. Hell I even returned it back to stock a few months ago, when taking it to the dealer JUST to remind myself how poor the oem tune was, incase I was viewing the tuning differences through rose colored glasses.

also it was 5 exhausts and 7 tune variations as I was one of the first guys To get Ryan’s tune. In the beginning it was a trial and error as the bike was still new. I was one of the guys willing to put in the work trying out beta tunes for him and giving feedback to the tuners to help him build the damn near perfect tunes most people are enjoying right now.

And I honestly don’t care what you think. You seem to want to argue for the sake of arguing. You enjoy your stock running bike, I’ll enjoy mine and continue to preach the gospel of the secret sauce tuning that almost everyone who experiences it, wishes they did it sooner, especially the ones who “let the ecu learn” after a few thousand miles, when they could have been riding a smooth running and quicker bike that entire time.
 
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mark.lb

mark.lb

Well-known member
I guess I am the exception to the rule. My FTR has run great since the day I took delivery. I simply have not had any of the cold stall, 3-4000 rpm surging or other issues that many of you have spent money, time and effort to fix. I might be able to “get more out of it“ or shift the power/torque curve with a tune but I am a recreational rider with a nice bike that runs great. For now I am leaving it alone.
 
K9F

K9F

Well-known member
That's what's great about tuning threads, there are two distinct sides with often greatly differing perceptions, those that are easily pleased and content with what they have and those that wish to uncork (loved that phrase above) and unleash the potential of making a good machine into a truly great one. People can also get quite uptight and emotive about it.

I was sat on the 'leave well alone' side for quite a while but then again perhaps not as I had the cat removed and pipes swapped out before delivery? I was also under the impression that there was only one true way to get a tune and that was by being present and buying dyno time. This method is of course only as good as the guy doing the tweaking. This was my first ever foray into remote tuning and admittedly it also 'wore me down' a little with the vociferous advocators (no offence meant) of Max Kool and Ferraiolo 1 banging on about how good the tunes were and how I really needed to experience one to know any better. I had already had experience historically with other vehicles and knew the virtues and advantages a tune can bring. I dug my heels in and continued with the standard set up. Why? I don't really know!

For anyone dithering or wondering whether to dip your toe into the tuning pool like me I have nothing but great things to say about it, my FTR transformation was profound and despite it being difficult to admit both Max and Ferraiolo were right after all and I told them such. Humble pie digested maybe just maybe if they hadn't been so vociferous and make me feel like my nuts were being put in a vice so much I would have got one earlier? This has been written tongue in cheek and once again no offence meant or implied.

Ultimately if you feel like you want a tune but are unsure, there'll come a time when your tune just can't arrive quick enough in your Inbox after sending your stock/info files away.

That's why I went with Fuel Moto USA Ferraiolo 1, simply because you didn't! Joke by the way!(y)😂🤣😂
 
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Max Kool

Max Kool

Well-known member
The problem with tuning bikes like these, you don't just put them on a dyno.

For top performance: hell every decent tuner should be able to get the same top wfo hp.

Midrange torque, throttle response, how to prevent surging on low throttle openings and cold starting behavior however, are a completely different ballgame and takes hundreds of hours to fix/optimize...

That's why @ferraiolo1and I emphasize getting a Ryan (or FM) tune all the time. If you "put it on the dyno" at the average dyno shop shop you may end up with A. a bog stock Dynojet tune they download from the DJ website, or B. a bike that runs worse than before except at full throttle.
 
K9F

K9F

Well-known member
Know what Max? You and Ferraiolo have actually 'got on my tits' in the past with all this tuning malarkey (not as much as Cupcake's obviously), and I sincerely hope I got on yours too? I do actually like you guys and before anyone else says it....Shall we get a room, I'm paying? Feel free to delete Ferraiolo as moderator but don't forget you're invited too.

We could invite Cupcake too and lay all this unrest to bed metaphorically speaking?


😂🤣😂
 
ferraiolo1

ferraiolo1

2021-2024 IMR Ambassador
Staff member
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cupcake_mike

Active member
Blue1 said:
Yeah, it's a lot easier to weld on a little material, grind down to proper dimension and refinish the area in an attempt to make it look OEM, than it is to just go slow.

Thanks for straightening me out.
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I said nothing about what's easier and neither did you. You said "you can't put materials back". Which is wrong.

For many people, who weld regularly, it is easier to do it once and forget it then to spend a couple hours grinding 1/32 of an inch at time, checking and rechecking, and likely end up in a bad spot anyway
 
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Blue1

Active member
cupcake_mike said:
I said nothing about what's easier and neither did you. You said "you can't put materials back". Which is wrong.

For many people, who weld regularly, it is easier to do it once and forget it then to spend a couple hours grinding 1/32 of an inch at time, checking and rechecking, and likely end up in a bad spot anyway
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Thank you Captain Obvious; I had no idea that metal isn't the same as wood. Thank God I have people like you to point that out.
 
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