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Weird sound or is it?!?!

E

Etower80

New member
Joined
May 13, 2024
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12
Location
WALTHAM, MASS
Im hoping to get your opinion on something. I recently changed my spark plugs and cleaned my K&N air filter. After starting my car, I've noticed a whirring and clanking noise that seems louder than usual. Is this a normal sound or not. thanks.

 
Unfortunately i cant comment Etower as recorded sounds dont carry as well as being there.........for my ears anyway
 
I believe that we needed some more information to assist/confuse/ or just randomly say stuff....eg
1. Was it a full moon
2. What had been eating that day
3. Was 98 octane or 95......or kerosene used
 
1. Does it puff smoke on startup = Scored piston(s).
2. Does it quiet down with clutch lever pulled in = Normal.
3. Can pull the oil filter and open it up to see contamination like non-magnetic debris being aluminum and/or brass in tiny chunks.
4. Can warm up bike for a 15 minute ride, drain oil immediately in a clean container and look for metallic debris mixed in the oil. Stick a magnet in the oil to see if metal clings to magnet.
5. Can take the bike for a ride and find out if this phantom noise gets louder = Stop riding and pull engine for a full inspection.

That's about as bizarre as I get, FTR... LOL
 
My apologies for the initial lack of detail in my previous post.

1. It does not puff smoke on startup
2. yes the sound get a little better when clutch is pulled in
3. I will be doing an oil change next week for that exactly reason.
4. Both my oil drain plug have magnetic tips so it's easy to change if there's metal in the oil
5. The engine doesn't make the noise when revving the engine, the noise get a little better when the engine is warm.

To clarify, the ticking noise I was experiencing was initially traced to a loose screw holding down the front fuel injector. Tightening it did quiet the sound, but a subtle ticking persists. I now suspect the cam chain tensioner is the source of this remaining noise. I've read that the cam chain tensioner on the 2019 Indian FTR 1200 models was prone to failure due to a design flaw, reportedly undergoing three revisions to address the issue.

Has anyone here encountered problems with their cam chain tensioner on this model, and if so, have you replaced it?
 
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3. Changing the oil won't help what is basically normal.

I was thinking cam chain first off, but it is automatic in design. Bringing up a design flaw for said year, and revisions to address the issue, guess it's in Polaris's hands.

Clutch lever in quiets down the pulses is what is happening. Meaning, lever out brings the whole clutch pack as one. An out of sync cures it but not all of the noise will disappear. This is due to the pulses of load and subsides, then next pulse begins over again. When subsides, it backlashes to the other side of the clutch outer basket. Thus the indents at both sides of the fork arm (for a better name). Just riding will cause this backlash on lift and the wheel load increases this pound at the fork arms.

CB750 Hondas were notorious for this due to the chain from crank to main-shaft. Took 4 pulses to sync in to stop most of the noise. When lever is pulled in, the frictions and steel plates float so as to stop the pulse pounding the basket receives.

A friend installed a FI fuel system to a new all aluminum V8 engine. Roller rockers and other roller top end parts so the engine is basically quiet. Though I can hear the injectors make a ticking noise and that is probably what you are hearing.

Tight valves can cause erratic on off ticking. Max valve lash quiets this noise. So loose valve lash solves this noise. And I mean loose as in book spec loose still within tolerance.

As far as cam chain tension, a static adjustment design would solve this, but is more service intensive and would need a block of machined aluminum housing with a threaded adjustment screw and pad at the end (if no slipper) of adjustment screw or rounded threaded bolt to press against a slipper arm, Doubt anyone has come up with this design and is on the market.

Old Honda used this spring loaded design against their tensioner slipper arms. Would just need to unload the locking bolt and the spring would push the shaft into the slipper and retighten the nut. Kawi's tensioner design was oil pressure assist but these would expand the locking spring and you'd hear the noise on startup until pressure was loaded, but the shaft would not be locked to the next tooth on the shaft and float. I think APE performance made this static adjust to solve the first gen design.

A dyno run caused this tensioner failure but I just tightened the lock ring and solved this. Too tight a tension would rub a groove into the sipper arm. Like I said, you'd have to keep up with the wear factor, but the auto adjust is the way to go.
 
I was thinking that the oil may have degraded to the point where the hydraulic cam chain tensioner isn't getting enough pressure to fully deploy the mechanism. But hearing you say that changing the oil isn't going to fix the problem has me reconsidering. I've racked my brain over this, and I think it's time to check my valve clearance. My bike just hit 15,000 miles, and I still haven't done a valve inspection. I also believe the clutch might be contributing to the rattling noise, making it worse.

This is what I found when doing research on Cam Chain tensioner redesign.
  • Revisions exist: Indian has revised the cam chain tensioner design multiple times, including a third, "super heavy duty" version.
  • Early versions: The earliest versions were found to wear faster than normal.
  • Improvement: The latest tensioners have wider ratchet faces to prevent rotation and slipping.
  • Potential issue: A faulty tensioner can cause a rattling noise in the engine.
  • Replacement: Replacing the tensioner is described as not being a terribly difficult repair.
Do you have any tips on how to replace the tensioner without messing it up? Also, what do you think the issue is — the clutch or the valve? I’m thinking it might be both, but I’m a beginner so I’m not totally sure. That said, I’m Vietnamese — and giving up or paying someone else to fix it just isn’t in our DNA!

I forgot to mention these are the mods i've done to my FTR so far.

  1. Smart moto Emissions eliminator
  2. Dyno-jet PV3
  3. Fuel-Moto Maps
  4. Indian windshield Low-Mid (OEM)
  5. Windshield Bracket (OEM)
  6. Pro taper foot-peg (OEM)
  7. S&S Control module/ 3 mode access
  8. R&G aero frame slider
  9. Indian FTR 1200 Radiator shield/cover
  10. Aviator seat (OEM)
  11. Odi handlebar
  12. Rear mirror
  13. Spark plug
  14. Hyperpro rear spring lowering suspension
  15. Hyperpro front fork lowering suspension
  16. rear license plate mount
  17. Rear plate light
  18. Titanium exhaust mount screw
  19. Coolant hose connector (installed Recall) (OEM)
  20. Helibar handlebar pullback riser
  21. Garmin GPS
  22. Ram mount fork stem mount
  23. 17in RIm rear (OEM 18in) (OEM)
  24. 17in Rim front (OEM 19in) (OEM)
  25. Front wheel (continental)
  26. Rear wheel (Michelin)
  27. DEI exhaust pipe heat sleeve
  28. DEI 2x heat shield with metal rim
  29. ODI grips
  30. Automatic reset fuse amps for 20, 15, 25
  31. Sealed alternator plug for better waterproofing
  32. Front and rear tone ring (OEM)
  33. Front and rear o2 Sensor (OEM)
  34. Coolant flush
  35. INDIAN FTR1200 S&S CYCLE 2-2 GRAND NATIONAL FLAT TRACK RACER FULL EXHAUST SYSTEM
  36. Smart Moto: O2 (Oxygen) Sensor Eliminator kit OSE-425
  37. 10mm Motorcycle Aluminum Rear-set Gear Shift Shifter ARM Linkage fit for GSXR600 mod 4. S&S control module OE
  38. OEM air filter
  39. AMSOIL Oil Filters EA15K13 and AMSOIL 15W-60 100% Synthetic V-Twin Motorcycle Oil
  40. Motorcycle Aluminum Rear-set Gear Shift Shifter ARM Linkage fit for GSXR600
  41. K&N air filter
  42. Motorism Rear indicator
  43. OEM Indian Rear rack (OEM)
  44. Raptor shift light indicator light
  45. New Torque Bracket (old one looked a little rough so I purchase a new one for vanity reasons)


​

 
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For sure I'd set the valves loose. Can't hurt if it's within spec.

Here's the deal with valves:

Setting tight - This gives the engine more top end mph. Short duration is known as a speed event. More event means more HP.

Setting loose - This gives the engine more to its diminishing event. Opening later gives more low end torque.

Setting valves in the middle spec - This takes the advantages of both tight and loose. Make sense?

The list like the eliminators and tuning of the PC3 does not increase engine noise. Nothing to change there.
 
That was incredibly helpful, thank you! I had been considering issues with valve lash.

Regarding my setup, I was previously running a Smartmoto O2 sensor eliminator in conjunction with a closed-loop Fuel Moto tune. The bike performed well across the entire powerband with that configuration.

I've heard that switching from a closed-loop back to an open-loop fueling system can result in increased engine and chain noise. Do you know if there's any truth to this?

I made the switch back to open-loop primarily due to poor fuel economy. I'm planning a tour from Boston to Los Angeles on my FTR and really want to avoid stopping for gas every 50-70 miles.
 
Closed loop tends to lean out the tune or makes better gas mileage. The 02 reads how rich/lean the engine is performing and is preset to run the ideal 14.7 AFR.

Open loop tends to give the best performance and does not alter the rich tune.

I doubt a tune increases or lessens a chain noise. Chain has no idea how well/poor the bike is tuned.

Closed loop can set the injectors to be altered via this sniff the 02 senses.
Open loop is set by the map and runs what the map is tuned to.

Closed is handcuffed to the 02 and counters a modified map.
Open is freehand to the map and is not countered to an 02. Hope that makes sense.

So sustained riding, the 02 aims for the preset of lean.
With open loop, the map cannot be altered and runs rich when sustained.

Like a 12.5 AFR is rich running and adds smoothness and poor mileage.
A 14.7 AFR is safe lean monitored by the 02 sensors.
A PAIR system is fresh air entering the exhaust system and refires the unspent and burns cleaner with a 16.5 AFR at the end of the exhaust with the help of a cat,

14.2 AFR is what NASCAR is tuned to. The term 'lean is mean' is where this comes from I believe.

Best rich torque is in the 12 AFR range, Best economy is around the 15/16 AFR range..
 
Hey Bott, you seem to be ever knowledgeable—so help a noob out. In this photo, what's the deal with the torque bit hole? Is it just for looks, or is it meant to be a tamper-resistant feature? And when removing the rear sprocket nut, do you also need to take out the screw with the torque bit, or is that just decorative and you only need to remove the five nuts? The manual says nothing about a torque pin.
I read that you need to remove the locking torque pins before taking off the nut, since those pins are what keep the five nuts from vibrating loose. Is that actually the case?
 

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E, I believe it's twofold as 1, you can hold the stud with a torx-bit and break loose the nut, and 2, you can install/remove the stud using the torx-bit. But they might be torqued to spec, or held with a loc-tite liquid. Probably not. Say if removing the stud you can tell if a locking liquid was used with the liquid dried and stuck in the threads. My guess is you'd round out the hex's even with blue locker. Brake disc bolts would have the softer locking (blue) agent used, usually.
Old style was just a rounded end of the stud where you take 2 nuts screwed onto the stud, tighten both nuts together and remove or install the stud that way.

Since the studs are non-moving during service, this is the way to install and remove this torx-style head stud. Real basic, meaning, no reference in the manual short of a torque number setting for installing. BTW, the manual knows you should be mechanically inclined not to be hand held for every move of the bike, thus no reference.

As far as nut removal, short of an air tool to shock the nuts loose, I'd hold the stud in place using a torx-bit and break the nut off this way. Then again, that stud wont budge if you remove the nut alone is my guess. So basically, just the 5 nuts that hold the sprocket in place.

what's the deal with the torque bit hole?
Click to expand...
Just a stud for installing with a helper designed at the end.

Is it just for looks, or is it meant to be a tamper-resistant feature?
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Probably for looks to enhance the other bolts around the bike. Hardly tamper-resistant.

And when removing the rear sprocket nut, do you also need to take out the screw with the torque bit, or is that just decorative and you only need to remove the five nuts?
Click to expand...
Just the 5 nuts only.

The manual says nothing about a torque pin.
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Photo 4 shows the blowout of the 5 nuts, the sprocket, and the carrier. Notice the studs are still in the carrier. So those are left in the carrier. Kind of see how to read the manual's renderings?

I read that you need to remove the locking torque pins before taking off the nut, since those pins are what keep the five nuts from vibrating loose. Is that actually the case?
Click to expand...
Not according to the rendering. Make sense the studs are not to be removed to change the sprocket? Probably a fumbled instruction is my guess. Think about it, holding the nut and spinning the stud off? No way. Threads are a wonderful invention that inter-lock between each other, Or the bike would fall apart. Make sense?
 
"Photo 4 shows the blowout of the 5 nuts, the sprocket, and the carrier. Notice the studs are still in the carrier. So those are left in the carrier. Kind of see how to read the manual's renderings?"

I'm having trouble identifying the studs in the rendering; it primarily shows the nuts. Are you referring to the parts protruding from the sprocket carrier? Could you please indicate on the rendering where the studs are visible, distinct from the nuts?
 
Bott said:
I understand manuals assume a certain level of mechanical aptitude, but motorcycle repair is a new frontier for me. I started riding in my 40s during the pandemic and, despite a lifetime of working on cars, I've found a significant difference between the two. With cars, you can sometimes improvise, but 'winging it' on a motorcycle can have serious consequences. That's why I'm meticulous, often double or triple-checking my work if there's even a hint of doubt. I've noticed motorcycle manuals occasionally omit crucial steps that are essential for proper removal and installation of parts. Every make, model, and year has a unique design, not to mention each manufacturer's 'advanced' or proprietary designs.
Click to expand...
 
E, on the rendering, follow the dotted line of the nut to the carrier. See how the studs protrude from the carrier? The dotted line shows more of the stud strutting out being in place.

Parts page of drivetrain:
https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/assembly/?modelId=N22RZA22A4&assemblyId=435603

See #2 studs showing in the rendering? Now look at the #24 carrier where the drawing of the carrier shows the stud holes being flat, not studs or nipples protruding out at the carrier, but can see the studs placed in the carrier of rendering #4 of here in this thread.

LOL, trust me, shop manual shows the studs in place, or you'd see the studs blown out as per studs removed first of what you read.
 
Staedtler said:
These
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Now that the rendering is much improved, this makes 100% sense—thank you!

Which manual did you get this from? The version I downloaded doesn't have this level of rendering. Is this from the parts catalog with the exploded views and descriptions for purchasing items? I regret not checking those renderings before; I'll be sure to next time.

It's frustrating that Indian Motorcycle seems to be inconsistent with their renderings. It doesn't make sense that the parts catalog would have all this detail while the service manual doesn't.
 
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