Any after market exhaust for sale
- Thread starter FTR1200RStu
- Start date
richthib
New member
I also am vertically challenged at 5’-6” and 28” inseam. These pipes look like the would add a already excessive amount of heat. I removed the cat and installed a Acropovic connecting pipe to a single S&S muffler. Noticeable performance increase, runs cooler, looks good and sounds great. Also added a universal leather heat shield.
Max Kool
Well-known member
Assuming you tuned it afterwards?
btw, most if not all cat deletes give less midrange torque than with cat installed, even after tuning. The best link pipe seems to be the Toce one.
Yep, tuner’s choice is with the cat/resonator.
(unless full Tuce, which is a torque monster)
btw, most if not all cat deletes give less midrange torque than with cat installed, even after tuning. The best link pipe seems to be the Toce one.
Yep, tuner’s choice is with the cat/resonator.
(unless full Tuce, which is a torque monster)
richthib
New member
I did not have to do a tune afterward. Modern day ECU are pretty good at adjusting to fuel needs. My exhaust actually runs slightly richer at low to mid range and the popping i experienced initially is almost completely gone. I haven't noticed any decrease in torque or power, in fact by the seat of pants actually feels stronger. Still pulls wheel at 6,000 rpm. Pulls away from 2500 rpm in 6th gear without any hiccup or miss. 9,300 miles in first 4-1/2 months.
Max Kool
Well-known member
Serious, modern ECU's cannot correct the absence of the resonator. That's like cutting off half of a trombone hoping the lips of the musician will adjust for that so that it sounds the same. It doesn't. In closed loop it will correct as much as it can, but open the throttle and it will run worse... Running too rich can lead to carbon build up over time btw, sticky rings, valves not closing properly....
What you're probably feeling around 6000 rpm is getting out of the torque dip.
Just be careful
What you're probably feeling around 6000 rpm is getting out of the torque dip.
Just be careful
Last edited:
If you didn’t tune it, you’re confusing loudness with performance. It actually runs worse with the cat off and the stock tune.
richthib
New member
I’ve been riding motorcycles for almost a million miles total for 58 years. The last 4 motorcycles, thre modern ECU Guzzis and this FTR. I’ve upgraded the exhaust on all and never had any issues. My FTR is NOT running to rich. With the change from 49 tooth rear sprocket to 42 I’m averaging 50 mpg. My FTR always pulled the front wheel at 6000 even befor exhaust and sprocket change. I’ve lost nothing. I asked my dealer about this and they told me not to worry.
richthib
New member
My FTR has all the cake I can eat. I don’t want or need more cake. I’m not on a race course, although I do ride with spirit. I’ve put down over 9,200 miles in 4-1/2 months. Been over the ton on occasion passing. Pull the front wheel quite a lot.You do you sir. Just never ride an FTR that has a tune. Ignorance is bliss.
It’s more about the smoothness than the peak power.
if you look at the stock line, you can see the tq and hp dip around 4k, when you do a cat delete and no tune, that dip is even greater. Thats why you feel like it has more power, because it then rockets out of that dip around 5500. With the tune, there is a minimal dip making the power smooth and linear.
if you look at the stock line, you can see the tq and hp dip around 4k, when you do a cat delete and no tune, that dip is even greater. Thats why you feel like it has more power, because it then rockets out of that dip around 5500. With the tune, there is a minimal dip making the power smooth and linear.
Last edited:
Timps27
Active member
This old debate? They are correct Rich, the torque dip on the stock map is substantial, and removing the resonator without altering the map is not doing you any favors. It feels good because it makes noise and makes you smile (I know the feeling), but if you ran the data the drop is still there. An FTR tune is not about getting some massive injection of power, it’s just about smoothing the band out.
richthib
New member
All i know is my FTR with the cat delete and S&S muffler runs smooth with no hiccups or flat spots and delivers all the cake I can eat. Never had any stalling issues with this setup. But all that being said, it just sounds so much better and more like a flat track racer should sound. Makes my smile every time I fire up. lol. BTW, which line is witch on this graph? I don't see any HP or torque figures either.
Timps27
Active member
Red is stock, blue is S&S with Decat and FM tune. The torque is the flatter two lines, you can see how the FM tune flattens the torque UP in the 4k-6k range. I have not yet seen a dyno on a decat+tip with no tune, but it is at least no improvement over the stock drop in that range, and the reasoning provided by Max and others regarding a reduction below stock is imminently plausible. So best case you’ve still got the stock torque drop, worst case you’ve pushed the drop even lower.
Beyond that, by removing the resonator you’ve removed a major source of back pressure, and in turn changed the air fuel mixture on the way into the cylinder. The stock ECU calculations uses the expected back pressure inclusive of the resonator. By removing it and not giving your ECU updated tables to calculate from, it is adjusting the fueling for what it should be inclusive of the resonator; meaning not for your given conditions.
At best you are missing out on performance, at worst you’re causing premature wear on components. Neither strikes me as an ideal place to reside.
Beyond that, by removing the resonator you’ve removed a major source of back pressure, and in turn changed the air fuel mixture on the way into the cylinder. The stock ECU calculations uses the expected back pressure inclusive of the resonator. By removing it and not giving your ECU updated tables to calculate from, it is adjusting the fueling for what it should be inclusive of the resonator; meaning not for your given conditions.
At best you are missing out on performance, at worst you’re causing premature wear on components. Neither strikes me as an ideal place to reside.
Yep, in two years of people being stubborn and not wanting to tune their bike when they decat, EVERYTIME once they eventually tune it, their reaction is always "i didnt realize how bad my bike was running"
richthib
New member
Oh, so this is stock vs Dynojet tune. I would find it interesting to see a dyno run with the cat delete and S&S can added into the equation just to have actual numbers rather than just saying or supposing by best guess info. Not disputing your hypothesis but I'd like to see actual factual info. If I was able to se that, then I'd be more receptive. My dealer told me they didn't have a tune and not to worry. Also, I have no idea where I could get a tune near me.
Canned FTR & Scout Maps
Scout Tuning INCREASED POWER INCREASED FUEL EFFICIENCY INCREASED RIDEABILITY Lloyd'z Garage maps optimize the efficiency of your Indian Scout models in every way possible! You'll immediately notice the increase in throttle response, as well as, the increase in torque to keep you at the front of...
lloydzgarage.com
Or
Dynojet PV3 Indian FTR 1200 Power Vision 3
Dynojet - Power Vision 3 Indian FTR 1200 Tuner
www.fuelmotousa.com
You won’t really find those numbers because a tuner won’t run a cat less bike wot on the Dyno wheel
Kceezy17
New member
Just for another reference point, my bike never really had many issues. I deleted the cat and still didn’t have any issues. I got a tune a couple weeks ago and I felt like it actually ran worse the first couple times riding it. Now it feels exactly the same. I really don’t feel any extra smoothness, etc. But if the tune makes the engine last longer then I guess it was money well spent.
Did you get a tune from fuel moto?