Headlight

[RiverRat]

Anybody else have a foggy headlight? My headlight looks like there is condensation built up on the inside but upon further inspection it kinda looks like a powder. Small white powder like particles. Anybody else have this problem or know what I have done to cause this?

 

[cupcake_mike]

I've had this problem on other bikes with LED headlights, not with my FTR though. Something to do with the reflective coating not being cured all the way or something. Dealership should replace under warranty.

 

[K9F]

Yes on other vehicles. Common factor is that the lights were all made by J W Speaker as the Indian and Harley-Davidson Daymakers are. Will be covered under warranty but replacements can be just as bad. In the end I sorted a 'home fix.' It is moisture ingress that is causing your issue. I eventually ditched the J W Speaker brand and went 50/50 with a fellow motorcycling buddy and we bought a pair of superior quality different brand truck LED lights that only came as a pair and had a higher IP rating against moisture ingress from a company in Germany called Nolden.

Nolden Cars & Concepts GmbH

www.noldengmbh.de

From another forum:

Cost has to be balanced against usage and gain. 2010 I had a motorcycle with a standard incandescent headlight and did a lot of night time cross country commuting. Winter time it was dark when I set off for work and dark on the way home. The standard light was woefully inadequate even uprating the fuse and headlight bulb to an off-road 100/130 watt. LED headlights were a new concept back then and I spent an eye watering $576 in your money at todays exchange rate for a JWS 8700. The improvement was profound. Nevertheless after a few weeks the bloody lens fogged up and crystal like deposits started forming inside. Having spent so much I was gutted. They claimed to have a Goretex breather fitted. On further investigation this breather was simply a small round dot of tape adhered over a hole at the rear of the aluminum housing. Once moisture got inside there was not enough heat generated to burn it off. In the end I gently removed the tape, heated the light gently in the oven and had to seal the hole completely whilst the light was warm to create a sealed vacuum. I swore then I would never go back to JWS. Nevertheless both my bikes came with JWS produced lights as standard. They have come a long way but both my current headlights still continue to fog up a little bit.

 

[Staedtler]

FYI FTR unit is not made by JW Speaker.

 

[K9F]

As you appear so sure can I ask who is it made by then as I and others were under the misconception that they are the most likely providers producing high quality LED lighting and also being based in America? The Daymakers certainly are! It was the Scout Pathfinder light an optional extra before it was fitted as standard to the FTR.

 

[Staedtler]

Someone on this or t'other forum had a contact at JW and they confirmed it was not their design. I would not be surprised if it was sourced from somewhere far more eastern than the US of A

 

[K9F]

Wouldn't surprise me either but many of the loyal and patriotic American Indian Riders wouldn't be too happy if it were commonly known I would imagine! Was from t'other forum I made the assumption the lights were a JWS production.

 

[Staedtler]

Just found it from the dark side..

 

[Max Kool]

Someone on this or t'other forum had a contact at JW and they confirmed it was not their design. I would not be surprised if it was sourced from somewhere far more eastern than the US of A

Many parts are designed here, and produced in Asia. No surprise. That’s how this industry works.

It’s not so much “sourced” (which would suggest there was already a unit available in Asia), but made to spec.

 

[MilwDave]

Yes on other vehicles. Common factor is that the lights were all made by J W Speaker as the Indian and Harley-Davidson Daymakers are. Will be covered under warranty but replacements can be just as bad. In the end I sorted a 'home fix.' It is moisture ingress that is causing your issue. I eventually ditched the J W Speaker brand and went 50/50 with a fellow motorcycling buddy and we bought a pair of superior quality different brand truck LED lights that only came as a pair and had a higher IP rating against moisture ingress from a company in Germany called Nolden.

Nolden Cars & Concepts GmbH

www.noldengmbh.de

From another forum:

Cost has to be balanced against usage and gain. 2010 I had a motorcycle with a standard incandescent headlight and did a lot of night time cross country commuting. Winter time it was dark when I set off for work and dark on the way home. The standard light was woefully inadequate even uprating the fuse and headlight bulb to an off-road 100/130 watt. LED headlights were a new concept back then and I spent an eye watering $576 in your money at todays exchange rate for a JWS 8700. The improvement was profound. Nevertheless after a few weeks the bloody lens fogged up and crystal like deposits started forming inside. Having spent so much I was gutted. They claimed to have a Goretex breather fitted. On further investigation this breather was simply a small round dot of tape adhered over a hole at the rear of the aluminum housing. Once moisture got inside there was not enough heat generated to burn it off. In the end I gently removed the tape, heated the light gently in the oven and had to seal the hole completely whilst the light was warm to create a sealed vacuum. I swore then I would never go back to JWS. Nevertheless both my bikes came with JWS produced lights as standard. They have come a long way but both my current headlights still continue to fog up a little bit.

The FTR headlight is not a JW Speaker product.

 

[K9F]

IF it's made under licence it makes it the same product in my book? For example Custom Dynamics lights profess to use J W Speaker technology in their own adaptive lamps. Regardless of who makes it, similar design with same fogging and crystalline deposits reported. From first hand experience higher IP rating lamps don't appear to suffer from these issues and for something that costs so much and they shouldn't.

 

[MilwDave]

IF it's made under licence it makes it the same product in my book? For example Custom Dynamics lights profess to use J W Speaker technology in their own adaptive lamps. Regardless of who makes it, similar design with same fogging and crystalline deposits reported. From first hand experience higher IP rating lamps don't appear to suffer from these issues and for something that costs so much and they shouldn't.

Sorry but you’re just wrong here. Technology can be licensed but what you’re discussing here is manufacturing quality and tolerances.

 

[K9F]

Inferiority and a common failure is what is being discussed nothing else! Trying to fathom if there is a common link between providers/manufacturers? Read into it that what you will. I found it was the 'goretex' breather that was nothing more than a dot of tape over a 5mm hole that was the primary cause.

 

[mark.lb]

I don’t know who manufactures the LED headlight on the FTR. My suspicion is Polaris probably sources them from China. Nanjing Jiuguang Lighting Technology Co. or another similar company. Remember Polaris manufacturers snow machines, side by side ATVs and boats. They probably use a manufacturer that can supply all their needs. Juiguang does make LED lights for Harley and Jeep products.

 

[MilwDave]

Inferiority and a common failure is what is being discussed nothing else! Trying to fathom if there is a common link between providers/manufacturers? Read into it that what you will. I found it was the 'goretex' breather that was nothing more than a dot of tape over a 5mm hole that was the primary cause.

So your Chinese sourced headlight fails and JW Speaker’s quality gets questioned?

 

[K9F]

MilwDave did you read my first post in this thread? Obviously not! From experience I wasn't questioning the quality of JWS...... JWS were in fact crap, the first generation 8700 lights particularly so, and even today my JWS made Daymaker continues to fog as does the light on my Indian! No biggy for me as I eventually sourced a light of better quality than JWS more resistant to water ingress and with a higher lumen output at the time, but RiverRat asked the question. I made the mistake of assuming that the Indian led was made by or under licence of JWS, as have several others but my actual experience of JWS could/should have been better for the considerable outlay regardless of who actually has a hand in making the Indian ones. The fault however is exactly the same.

RiverRat get it swapped out under warranty, it should not be happening.

 

[MilwDave]

Well I can only go by my own experience. Four bikes and four JWS Adaptive headlights and zero problems.

 

[Max Kool]

...but the FTR's headlight ain't one...

 

[K9F]

Adaptive weren't around when I had my issues and as with everything development and 'evolution' continues hopefully. As pointed out we're not talking adaptive here but as you mentioned them the cost for four adaptive could have been another motorcycle in your stable perhaps? They are eye wateringly expensive.

If you know JWS you may even see what I did there?

 

[MilwDave]

Adaptive weren't around when I had my issues and as with everything development and 'evolution' continues hopefully. As pointed out we're not talking adaptive here but as you mentioned them the cost for four adaptive could have been another motorcycle in your stable perhaps? They are eye wateringly expensive.

If you know JWS you may even see what I did there?

Their headlights have awesome resale value. So really not that expensive at all.