Which Tune!? Fuel Moto vs Lloyds Garage

[Zilonis]

I've looked around the forums, and my apologies if I missed it, but I don't see a thread where the pro's and con's of each tune are discussed.

My main question is which tune did you choose and why?

Here are a few other specific curiosities:
- Buy the PV3 Tuner w/ map or send ECU in for flash? (I have the AH2 firmware which seems to limit options?)
- Do both offer FREEE updates? I think Fuel Moto offers free tweaks (emailed) which is very valuable especially if you're going to try different setup's. I haven't seen anything regarding Lloyd's offering free updates/tweaks
- What did you pay? 500 seems to be the number.

 

[edgelett]

with Lloyds and FM, once you pay for the tune you get lifetime service.
I'm not sure if this has changed since Lloyds are now doing bench flashes only, but I'm sure someone who has one will chime in soon.
I chose Lloyds cause they were the only people that had a tune ready to go for the exhaust I have (Toce low mount)

 

[Max Kool]

With the AH2 software you're in a bit of a pickle. Lloydz doesn't tune these using a PV-3. And for a reason. The PV-3 only allows access to a limited amount of tables in the ECU, and as far as I know, there's also a bug or error in the PV-3 firmware that adresses the wrong location for a certain table, something like that. Don't ask Dynojet about it, they'll probably deny this. On some bikes this can lead to flameouts while rolling to a traffic light on a hot engine, and bad hot starts. Especially with the cat removed. That's not FM's fault btw. Sometimes after an FM tune the bike doesn't run as well as it should and FM will ask you to log rides and you get a new "PV-3" tune send to you. Or ask you to repeat the log collection and test a new tune a few times.

To have more freedom in what can be changed in the ECU, Lloydz uses a bench flash. If they wanted they could change everything. If you tell Lloydz beforehand what your exhaust configuration is, you get a tune that works. Period. The "V6" as they call it. Smoother than peanut butter, no surging, no stalling, and a few extra hp's on top of that. The only downside is changing exhausts with a bench tune. Their turnaround time is short, but your bike will be grounded for a few days and they may charge you a modest fee.

Another service Lloydz offers (or at least used to offer, they’re retiring this), is a "flash-back" tune. You send you ECU in once, and it will be flashed back to 9L0, the old version. Which allows you to use a PV-3 to flash your ECU from then on. With a V5 series tune. And you won't have the "AH2-PV3 bug". Which are also very good, but lacks some adjustments Indian made to the traction control parameters in AH2. This has nothing to do with the tune itself, and more with "vehicle stability".

Many people are happy with their FM tune, some are not and have switched to Lloydz. I have yet to hear from someone that switched the other way around, from Lloydz to FM.

I'm running the old software with Ryan's/Lloydz V5 tune, and couldn't be happier: super strong, buttery smooth, very controllable at any rev, and always starts up cold or hot start. Really the only thing that annoys me sometimes are the burps and blips the traction control throws in every now and then, which are gone with traction control off ("Track Mode").

500 bucks seems to be the going rate yes, FM may be a bit cheaper.

 

[Charliemurphay]

@Gene Hunt is the only one I know of that went Lloydz then FM, and I haven’t seen any updates about how that went for him so 🤷🏻‍♂️.

I went FM because I liked their style of logging rides and then sending you updates if there was some parameter that you didn’t like. I also went with them because they have a bundle deal where they give you a nice big discount if you buy a PV3 tuner and an exhaust from them (I have the S&S slip on).

I have the AH2 updated factory tune and while my bike never had as many issues as some I’ve read about, it did cold stall occasionally. I went through about 5 revisions before I was pretty happy with where the bike sat performance-wise. They were super responsive when submitting a log and requesting an update, a couple times I had a new tune in my inbox an hour after submitting a log.

That being said the couple of first tunes I got the bike did stall at stops a couple times. Fortunately they quickly ironed that out for me. As I understand it they then hired a new tuner who was more familiar with the FTR platform and it’s foibles who then came out with their “Revision B” tune as they called it. I’ve been running that since it came out and it’s the best the bike has ever run. I have zero complaints about it from its butter smooth cold-start and idle, lack of twitchiness, and pulls like a freight train.

All in all, I’ve been very happy with the Fuel Moto experience. That said, you really can’t go wrong with either. Comes down to price and exhaust you want really. If I were dead set on a Toce, I’d go with Lloydz. If S&S is your flavor, the FM deal is a hard deal to beat.

 

[Mlazarus]

To answer the OP question, I went with PV3 and fuel moto. I got a really good price on a fuel moto decat and S&S low slip on. So the fuel moto seemed like it would be well suited. I also like having the PV3 with the tuning software on my lap top so I can play with tunes, and always easily revert back to the A2H tune, the fuel moto tune, or any other saved changes. I haven't tried the Lloyds tune. I'm sure it's high quality, however, I was not interested in shipping my ECU out for tuning.

The price for the FM tune and PV3 is about $350 so the costs are fairly close to one another.

I am really pleased with the tune and throttle response. Super smooth, zero cold start issues and very rideable. I would not hesitate to go this route again.

 

[Max Kool]

So, for science, I’m treating myself to V6 this week. I have ridden V5 for about a year now, and a curious mind wants to know. Will keep you updated.

 

[Snakum]

My base model had every fueling issue and then some. I read everything I could find about the two options and went with the Lloydz V6. It's sorta the no muss-no fuss option. Rode it to Lowell, NC and pulled the ECU in the parking lot. Less than 30 mins later I was riding home. It's like a different bike now.

I'm sure FM is equally as good. Flip a coin.

 

[Wayne]

I have the Lloyds V6 bench tune with Akro header, cat delete and S&S slip on. I couldn't be happier. The bike is what I would have expected Indian to have delivered. It took some time to get the bike where I wanted it but the experimentation with PV3 and different maps was part of the journey and learning process which I personally enjoy.

 

[Mlazarus]

I have the Lloyds V6 bench tune with Akro header, cat delete and S&S slip on. I couldn't be happier. The bike is what I would have expected Indian to have delivered. It took some time to get the bike where I wanted it but the experimentation with PV3 and different maps was part of the journey and learning process which I personally enjoy.

How different is the Lloyds over the PV3 Fuel Moto?

 

[Max Kool]

Hard to say without testing both. Having direct access to the ECU (Lloydz) instead through the interface the PV-3 (FM) provides should give more control over how the engine runs in critical areas (closed loop vs open loop, surging) and completely works around the bug I mentioned in my earlier post.

They can make a Scout ECU work in an FTR (maybe even from a VW Golf if you pick the right Bosch ECU...)

 

[ferraiolo1]

There are MANY reviews on the forum and the fb page from people who have tried both. Both make similar peak power. But overall most prefer the smoothness of the lloydz tune after they had both.

my local dealer used to only use fm tunes, till they finally felt an ftr with a lloydz tune. Now they are a lloydz remote tuning center they liked it that much.

but some people aren’t as sensitive to tuning changes. So you may be happy with ether one equally.

 

[Wayne]

I can't compare to the FM PV-3 since I never tried it but I have tried a couple of Lloyd tunes for PV-3 and while there was improvement I still experienced the occasional flame outs down shifting for a corner which can be really unsafe and it was not as smooth either. I assume since the PV-3 doesn't have unrestricted access to the ECU's memory and registers the FM would be similar. From what I know of the bench tune which is very little I would equate it to a low level format of a disk drive

 

[Max Kool]

Which version(s) was that @Wayne ? I’ve been one of Ryan’s guinnee pigs from the start, and although every version I got was miles better than stock, V5 was the biggest leap I’ve experienced.

 

[Wayne]

V6

 

[ferraiolo1]

If you have a pv3 you’re trying tunes on, you don’t have v6

I’ve also seen people with flame out issues, have them fixed with a new battery.

The ftr is a fickle machine

 

[Charliemurphay]

It’s really odd to me that the “same” bike can have wildly different experiences and personalities across the board. Some people said they have had zero cold stalls from the dealer floor and it runs great, then others say theirs is unridable. The rest of us somewhere in between.

 

[Wayne]

If you have a pv3 you’re trying tunes on, you don’t have v6

I’ve also seen people with flame out issues, have them fixed with a new battery.

The ftr is a fickle machine

Sorry V6 is the bench tune. I no longer use my PV-3, the last tune for the PV-3 was a secret sauce tune he provided for my configuration. See photo

It’s really odd to me that the “same” bike can have wildly different experiences and personalities across the board. Some people said they have had zero cold stalls from the dealer floor and it runs great, then others say theirs is unridable. The rest of us somewhere in between.

 

[Mlazarus]

It’s really odd to me that the “same” bike can have wildly different experiences and personalities across the board. Some people said they have had zero cold stalls from the dealer floor and it runs great, then others say theirs is unridable. The rest of us somewhere in between.

I wonder how much of it has to do with atmospheric conditions. For example, I live at sea level in temperature that runs from high 50s to mid 80s typically. My bike had zero issues with the stock exhaust including cold start etcetera. I only tuned it after replacing the cat and muffler. I see people in 4 season areas talking about keeping it running when cold or choppy throttle response.

 

[ferraiolo1]

Sorry V6 is the bench tune. I no longer use my PV-3, the last tune for the PV-3 was a secret sauce tune he provided for my configuration. See photo



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That was a beta tune for a akra header, so if you were having flame outs, Ryan could have tweaked it.

you’re still having flame outs with a bench tune?

 

[Wayne]

Actually he did give me a tweaked tune, that was probably a picture that I had taken early on for the akra which was better but I did get the occasional flameout. The V6 is a big improvement and solved all my issues at least so far with no cold start issues, no flameouts or surging. To be honest the cold starts were the least of my concern. If it had run the way it should once up to operating temperature I would have been good with it.