Cold Stalls, Throttle Response Glitches, ECU mapping problems/differences

mark.lb

mark.lb

Well-known member
I am not a mechanic or technician and have little technical expertise when it comes to engine control management systems. But I simply have not had many of the problems or glitches that are frequently discussed on the forum. (I do not use a a PV3, and the exhaust system is stock Akrapovic on my FTR Race Replica) I have had all the recommended service done at my dealership at the recommended intervals and that includes ECU updates from Indian. I purchased my bike in Pittsburgh, PA -USA.
Is it possible that the Evaporative Emission Control System that is found on FTRs sold outside of the US to comply with Euro 6 emission standards is at the root of some of these problems? My bike like others sold in the US simply does not have this system installed. Just like removing the catalytic converter and adding an aftermarket exhaust system changes the running characteristics of the engine is it possible that the addition of a EECS also changes the way the engine runs and is tuned.

If I am barking up the wrong tree or simply don’t know what I‘m talking about, please excuse my ignorance....
 
ferraiolo1

ferraiolo1

2021-2024 IMR Ambassador
Staff member
Cali sold bikes also received that canister.

I also bought my bike not too far from pittsburg, i had all the issues. Cold stalling, twitchy throttle, low rmp surging. With a completely stock bike. I dealt with it for 700 miles before i had enough and tuned it. It was hands down the best money i spent on my bike so far.

@maxcool has a better explanation as to what the stock tune does incorrectly.
 
Max Kool

Max Kool

Well-known member
Yeah, it’s not the evap system.

I recall one of my first conversations with Ryan last year when he had just “cracked” the FTR ECU. Many times he wondered “what did they do here, and why?” . There are some wierd parameters here and there.

but hey, it you don’t feel any of this @mark.lb, gobbless. Simple as that.

I am the pain in my own ass, I feel the difference between one Ryan tune and the other....
 
Unruly Rider

Unruly Rider

Active member
mark.lb said:
I am not a mechanic or technician and have little technical expertise when it comes to engine control management systems. But I simply have not had many of the problems or glitches that are frequently discussed on the forum. (I do not use a a PV3, and the exhaust system is stock Akrapovic on my FTR Race Replica) I have had all the recommended service done at my dealership at the recommended intervals and that includes ECU updates from Indian. I purchased my bike in Pittsburgh, PA -USA.
Is it possible that the Evaporative Emission Control System that is found on FTRs sold outside of the US to comply with Euro 6 emission standards is at the root of some of these problems? My bike like others sold in the US simply does not have this system installed. Just like removing the catalytic converter and adding an aftermarket exhaust system changes the running characteristics of the engine is it possible that the addition of a EECS also changes the way the engine runs and is tuned.

If I am barking up the wrong tree or simply don’t know what I‘m talking about, please excuse my ignorance....
Click to expand...
There's definitely an issue with the factory mapping... my bike would cold stall repeatedly and sometimes fail to start 4-5 times before finally running - UNTIL I flashed in the FuelMoto tune via PV3 handheld. The throttle is still twitchy/surging until the bike has gotten above 140* F, once it gets up to operating temp the twitching/surging is gone. I know of 5 other FTR owners in RL and their bikes all have the same issues as well. As Ferraiolo1 said, it's the best money I have spent on my FTR hands down.
 
simplynotsimon

simplynotsimon

Member
After I fitted my S&S system I was hopeful the cold stalls might go away, with the cat removed and a cleaner breathing system but no joy, still had at least one cold stall most days. Since the PV3 tune not one stall and it was colder last week than when I first picked up the bike. Of all the mods I have carried out it is the one I wish I had done first and would recommend to anyone having stall issues.
 
MrEd

MrEd

Member
Agreed, after 2k miles and many stalls and surging. Finally got the pv3 and tune from fuelmoto. Huge improvement, no more stalls and surging. Not looking for more mods just smoother power delivery.
 
J

JDP

Active member
I need to get that tune also but I need to take it somewhere to have this done, i have trouble using my phone at times, I’m hoping somewhere in the future I can take it to someone close by but with this virus I can’t go anywhere anyway
 
SURLY

SURLY

Active member
JDP said:
I need to get that tune also but I need to take it somewhere to have this done, i have trouble using my phone at times, I’m hoping somewhere in the future I can take it to someone close by but with this virus I can’t go anywhere anyway
Click to expand...
Do you have any children if so ask them Max cool posted a how to vid on the forum they will watch the vid do the remap then go back to they own devices for the rest of the day and your bike will be transformed into the bike you actually wanted when you bought it funny Indian/Polaris with all their technology could not manage that can you imagine the shit storm had Harley put out a bike with this fueling.
 
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K9F

K9F

Well-known member
^^Harley had a much more serious and costly thing to deal with with the advent of M8s. The fuelling on the FTR wasn’t much and for some it was nothing more than a foible and a select few nothing at all.
 
K9F

K9F

Well-known member
We are indeed across several model platforms not just a single one! (y)

One poor guy was on his fourth replacement engine before he hit 6000 miles.
 
SURLY

SURLY

Active member
As I understand it it only affects hydraulic clutch engines the cable jobs are not affected still not good enough at my bike meet there are three M8 owners one lady owner is on the point of demanding a new bike as her bike has spent more time in the dealers because of warranty issues than in her garage (actual fact not exaggeration) and she is pissed the other two bikes have been faultless and these are used bikes one has been all over europe both owners very happy with bikes I was looking at the fatbob myself but the FTR looked so good it turned my head.
 
K9F

K9F

Well-known member
Apologies Surly busy at work. The issue I referred to had nothing to do with transmission, if you look on any decent Harley forum and search under ‘sumping’ it will become clear. It was an engine oil scavenging issue I was on about and it didn’t differentiate between hydraulic and cable operated clutch models. Nevertheless you too are correct, the transmission oil getting transferred to the primary was yet another similar major issue with the M8s.
There were two major fundamental flaws that knocks the FTR fuelling into insignificance.


1. Transmission oil migration into Primary

2. Some sort of oil pump/oil flow issue where the engine oil is getting pumped into the Primary

Couple of cut and pastes:

Well, me. Again apologies to those who have heard this 100 times, but same bike as you, stock 107, slip ons only. Hate to be a downer but 3 engines toast and replaced due to sumping.

MIne is a totally stock Trike and it sumped and transferred. Its getting an engine replacement because sumping heat and pressure cracked the crankshaft.

As an addition I have one of the very last CVO Twin Cams. These too were fraught with issues when they first came out and up until 2006 realistically when the cam chain tensioning system was changed due to the tensioner shoes disintegrating and blocking the oil pumps causing catastrophic failures to engines.

SURLY said:
........can you imagine the shit storm had Harley put out a bike with this fueling.
Click to expand...

Harley are well acquainted with historical shit storms of much larger proportions despite going into a total case of denial both times for a while and if they have had just a simple case of fuelling to contend with would have been much happier I would imagine. The FTR is ok exactly as it is, warts ‘n’ all for some, damn near perfect for others!
 
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SURLY

SURLY

Active member
K9F said:
Apologies Surly busy at work. The issue I referred to had nothing to do with transmission, if you look on any decent Harley forum and search under ‘sumping’ it will become clear. It was an engine oil scavenging issue I was on about and it didn’t differentiate between hydraulic and cable operated clutch models. Nevertheless you too are correct, the transmission oil getting transferred to the primary was yet another similar major issue with the M8s.
There were two major fundamental flaws that knocks the FTR fuelling into insignificance.


1. Transmission oil migration into Primary

2. Some sort of oil pump/oil flow issue where the engine oil is getting pumped into the Primary

Couple of cut and pastes:

Well, me. Again apologies to those who have heard this 100 times, but same bike as you, stock 107, slip ons only. Hate to be a downer but 3 engines toast and replaced due to sumping.

MIne is a totally stock Trike and it sumped and transferred. Its getting an engine replacement because sumping heat and pressure cracked the crankshaft.

As an addition I have one of the very last CVO Twin Cams. These too were fraught with issues when they first came out and up until 2006 realistically when the cam chain tensioning system was changed due to the tensioner shoes disintegrating and blocking the oil pumps causing catastrophic failures to engines.



Harley are well acquainted with historical shit storms of much larger proportions despite going into a total case of denial both times for a while and if they have had just a simple case of fuelling to contend with would have been much happier I would imagine. The FTR is ok exactly as it is, warts ‘n’ all for some, damn near perfect for others!
Click to expand...
And awfully pretty to:love:
 
J

JDP

Active member
Is there any FTR owners that know how to remap these bikes live around Annapolis Md ? I’m not good with computers,phones, electronics but would like to get my bike remapped with someone that knows what there doing and tell me what to buy and where to get it, I guess I should wait until the lock down is lifted anyway
 
ferraiolo1

ferraiolo1

2021-2024 IMR Ambassador
Staff member
2022 has a different head, intake, and injector design to help with this. As well as a different ecu. So there is no idea as to if a pv3 will even work on them. A bench flash may be your only option
 
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