MotoGP

[edgelett]

Miller the lone non Ducati in the top 9 bikes.
Great ride by Martin, awesome battle for 1st.
Hope Binder is OK, looks like he really rattled his cage.

as for Honda - Marc is just not a good development rider. when a bike is to his expectations he rides like a demon. but I'm convinced he's no good at explaining what isn't right. if they kept Stoner or Pedrosa as development riders they wouldn't be in this bad a spot I think.

I hope they get a test rider that's good ad developing the bike. I want a mixed field of winners.

 

[edgelett]

this is pretty spot on I recon.

“We're the only ones not complaining about our motorcycles and we're actually trying to do something about it, to fix it,” continued the #43. “Everyone else, all they do is throw their toys out of the cot and say that my bike is s**t. As simple as that.
“Yeah, but why are they s**t? Because it’s their own doing. They kicked out 99% of the engineers to get his engineers. His guys in there. And now they are f****d and he can't even make it past the lap. So it's their own doing. Everybody wants to complain about their own bikes, nobody wants to do anything about it. Shut the f**k up and get on with it the job.”

https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2023...q9UodcDESZzlCqp8dkVGtIzC_mRm58LzvqtJLPD0yfytE

 

[FTR London]

this is pretty spot on I recon.




https://www.motogp.com/en/news/2023...q9UodcDESZzlCqp8dkVGtIzC_mRm58LzvqtJLPD0yfytE

There's an element of truth to this, but it's way over the top. If only Honda and Yamaha's problems were that easily solved. Whoever is to blame, that RCV has become a death trap. It's also pretty rich given the way he departed Mark VDS due to "uncompetitive machinery" and "a lack of factory support".

 

[edgelett]

I don't disagree that the Honda is currently pretty unridable.
but MM's inability to communicate what is wrong and how to develop it is to blame.
If they kept Casey or Dani as development riders they wouldn't be in this mess.
But MM's ego wouldn't have it.
I expect him to leave Honda before the end of the year and pay out the contract.

 

[Helge]

Nope Edgelett...his DNA is winning...he will not leave Honda till he is back on the top.
There is not alternative in other teams

 

[FTR London]

I don't disagree that the Honda is currently pretty unridable.
but MM's inability to communicate what is wrong and how to develop it is to blame.
If they kept Casey or Dani as development riders they wouldn't be in this mess.
But MM's ego wouldn't have it.
I expect him to leave Honda before the end of the year and pay out the contract.

MM is not solely to blame for this morass. He may be accused of many things, but I'd suggest that 'egotistical' is not one of them, particularly given some of the narcissistic and conceited riders that this paddock has bred over recent years. Where I agree, he has spurned input from other riders both teammates and test riders but it's certainly not in his make up to construct a wall through the middle of the team garage for example and we saw similar problems albeit on a lesser scale afflict Yamaha with the M1 when they ceased to share data at the behest of one rider. This is ultimately, in terms of riders and their engineers, an individual sport - but one of the reasons that Ducati are so successful right now is their open shared policy on data and telemetry - (and yes, having the most bikes on the gird helps).

When Marquez was injured, they did try to make the bike more manageable for the other riders, and in pre-season testing at Qatar 2022, and the opening race this looked highly promising, but both flattered to deceive. Honda radically revamped the 2021 machine to try and enhance rear grip. Marc Marquez described the bike as "so different from previous years, it's as if I changed manufacturer". He also tellingly said last year - “I want a winning bike". But maybe the Marquez-style bike, the older style of the bike, would not work now. In his own words - "before the bikes were very low and short, now they are becoming big, long and tall”. It feels heavy and cumbersome to him and the inertia is something that he has implored HRC to improve. So perhaps the front end friendly bike (to him) is gone for good?

Honda management will typically only allow modifications to the bikes with the direction corporate Japanese engineers believe to be best. Not necessarily precisely what the rider wants. They seem to believe they know better and take some rider requests as "disrespect" to corporate executives and engineering ideas. To reiterate, that's one of the reasons that VR left to join Yamaha. The RCV became a progressively rawer and unrefined blunt tool which initially, only Marc could tame. In this sense, HRC put all their eggs in one basket. The margins became more acute and riding on a knife-edge, his injury and absence was inevitable. They tried to alter it for less talented riders but compromised what strengths it had and made it worse and that period that he was out was a developmental wilderness. Certainly, Marc lacks the communication and developmental prowess and ingenuity of say a Rainey or a Lawson, but he has given feedback and direction - the problem is, the RCV project is currently a rudderless ship and the team is all at sea.

As I suggested, I also think that he will buy himself out of the contract, but as @Helge points out, it's not in his nature to walk away and he won't want that legacy of a quitter. What I would say, is that you really wouldn't want an individual with such an extreme and radical riding style ending up as your teammate or leading development. Marc used to say, "I don't want a easy bike, I want a fast bike". Be careful what you wish for. I agree, that while it’s absolutely not 100% his fault, it’s hard to feel sympathetic for him having such a shit bike when he deliberately hindered its development. Vetoing Stoner as a test-rider was utter madness.

Yamaha aren't much better though. You think they listen to Franko over Fabio? No one else but Fabio has had success on the recent M1 and why so suddenly was such a promising and talented Morbidelli an overnight also-ran? Was Cal was the right call for test rider? How's that working out for them?

As fans of the sport, we are never privy to the full story or what goes on behind those garage doors when they drop.

 

[FTR London]

The Cathedral! I miss old Assen though.

Good to see Fabio podium in the sprint, but a shame it was at the expense of Binder due to a long lap penalty at the end. Incredible seeing the momentum that he was carrying into some of those corners to try and make up the deficit - particularly Ossebroeken - but lacked the punch of the KTM on the exit. Fair play to Bez, fast throughout. Perhaps Marc is now content to ride around in 15th like his colleagues at HRC? Out again for the main race. According to Alberto Puig, Honda do not want a rider who is “not happy”.

KTM had no option but to opt for the soft rear - couldn't make the bike work on the medium, but oddly Zarco and Alex Márquez also opted for it. Everyone on the grid on the hard front - track temperature for Assen unheard of, 50°.

What a start from Binder - tried to make an early break on the soft rear, knowing that his tyre management is a strength. The feedback yesterday, that tyre pressure were through the roof in traffic at these temps which of course compromises grip, Brad and Pecco so eager to get away. Bez went with them. Pecco riding on Bez's hard work...that's the problem with shared data. Gallant ride from Brad but no chance against these two Ducatis and two riders as good on the brakes as he is. Can't believe it happened again, demoted a position. Despite that rhs damaged front wing, great ride from Aleix to be in contention for the podium.

Miller down early - never comfortable on the hard front. Both French riders crashed out together in Turn 7 - fastest part of the track. Front ender for Fabio and collected his compatriot. Such as shame following the progress that Fabio had made through the weekend. Bastianini, classic Strubben front ender. Having an awful season.

Moto 2 - Dixon and Ogura had excellent pace all weekend. Dixon takes his first ever GP victory. So happy for him - a long time coming Second home for British riders and fans.

Moto 3 - Eight different riders taking turns in the lead of the race and ten riders coming into the final lap within one second on the final lap. This has to be the most entertaining race series on the planet. Congrats Masia.

 

[edgelett]

I still can't believe the same thing happened to Binder 2 races in a row on the last lap. Talk about bad luck.
he rode so well all weekend.
but hats off to Aleix for being in the fight with damage to his bike, unreal.
felt so bad for Miller, but lots of big names out early in the main race.
I suspect MM is doing either 1 of 2 things:
1) took the main race off so he can get over his 7093457839 injuries during the summer break
2) took the main race off so he can start negotiating a contract to leave and go elsewhere.

 

[DJ121]

Any MotoGP fans here?

How insane was yesterday's crash - faaaaaaaark!

Big MotoGP fan, which crash were you referring to, there have been so many

 

[DJ121]

The Cathedral! I miss old Assen though.

Good to see Fabio podium in the sprint, but a shame it was at the expense of Binder due to a long lap penalty at the end. Incredible seeing the momentum that he was carrying into some of those corners to try and make up the deficit - particularly Ossebroeken - but lacked the punch of the KTM on the exit. Fair play to Bez, fast throughout. Perhaps Marc is now content to ride around in 15th like his colleagues at HRC? Out again for the main race. According to Alberto Puig, Honda do not want a rider who is “not happy”.

KTM had no option but to opt for the soft rear - couldn't make the bike work on the medium, but oddly Zarco and Alex Márquez also opted for it. Everyone on the grid on the hard front - track temperature for Assen unheard of, 50°.

What a start from Binder - tried to make an early break on the soft rear, knowing that his tyre management is a strength. The feedback yesterday, that tyre pressure were through the roof in traffic at these temps which of course compromises grip, Brad and Pecco so eager to get away. Bez went with them. Pecco riding on Bez's hard work...that's the problem with shared data. Gallant ride from Brad but no chance against these two Ducatis and two riders as good on the brakes as he is. Can't believe it happened again, demoted a position. Despite that rhs damaged front wing, great ride from Aleix to be in contention for the podium.

Miller down early - never comfortable on the hard front. Both French riders crashed out together in Turn 7 - fastest part of the track. Front ender for Fabio and collected his compatriot. Such as shame following the progress that Fabio had made through the weekend. Bastianini, classic Strubben front ender. Having an awful season.

Moto 2 - Dixon and Ogura had excellent pace all weekend. Dixon takes his first ever GP victory. So happy for him - a long time coming Second home for British riders and fans.

Moto 3 - Eight different riders taking turns in the lead of the race and ten riders coming into the final lap within one second on the final lap. This has to be the most entertaining race series on the planet. Congrats Masia.

I firmly believe that Marc is still likely the best rider out there, however with such an inferior bike, he cannot show it, same for Fabio. If Marc and Fabio were on 23 Ducatis, they'd be running up front with Pecco imo.

 

[edgelett]

Big MotoGP fan, which crash were you referring to, there have been so many

well that post of mine you quoted was from August 2020. I think I was referring to a Vinales crash at the time. it was nearly 3 years ago though.

 

[FTR London]

I firmly believe that Marc is still likely the best rider out there, however with such an inferior bike, he cannot show it, same for Fabio. If Marc and Fabio were on 23 Ducatis, they'd be running up front with Pecco imo.

There used to be a series here in the UK called PRO-AM racing. 25 keys to identical RD350LCs were placed in a hat - take your pick. At the time, the nutters and lunatics raced it - quite a few went on to BSB, WSB, road racing and 500cc GP - a couple became journalists. They revived it for a laugh some years ago at Doni with 250LCs - I think Mackenzie won it.

Hypothetically, a similar series today? You'd definitely see Marc, Fabio, Pecco, Martin, Binder, Alex, Aleix and probably Jackass up front, but also quite a few other names that aren't usually troubling the leaders. Though we don't have the insane levels of comparative advantage and inequity witnessed during the peak Rossi era there are still some riders on a hiding to nothing. You'd also probably also see Zarco actually win another race.

 

[edgelett]

Silverstone this weekend.
Great qualifying from Miller but he went very backwards in the sprint race - I think he should have taken the gamble on slicks to be honest.
but what a ride from Alex Marquez to win the sprint!!
meanwhile - was his brother there?
looking forward to the main race tonight.

 

[edgelett]

Well looks like MM's still enjoying riding into other people. at least he only took himself down this time. he hasn't finished a main race all year.

Miller - wtf was that dude. yes Maverick caused you to go wide and lose lots of spots but I was hoping you'd recover a bit.

meanwhile the battle between the top 5 was epic. Great race. shame to see Bez go down cause I'm enjoying a close championship.

 

[edgelett]

I'm also trying to work out why Pecco wasn't penalised for crossing onto the green on the last lap..

 

[FTR London]

Sprint race was unexpectedly uneventful - had Bez had one more lap, he would definitely caught and passed AM.

So anyone remember Johnny Cecotto?...no, wait, he was Venezuelan. Yonny Hernández then, he was definitely Columbian and now David Alonso becomes the first Colombian to win a grand prix, from last on the grid, after a mental Moto3 race which saw the top 16 riders covered by less than two seconds at the chequered flag. Great stuff!

Moto 2, congrats to Fermin Aldeguer on his maiden win...(well no one thought that Canet was actually going to do it this time did they?). Good to see Joe Roberts in fourth. A weekend to forget for Dixon, who didn't mince his words about Binder, branding him a "complete idiot" and a "clown" having "destroyed his season".

Main race had an entertaining five-way battle for the lead, and a thrilling climax in deteriorating conditions and 'mental rain' on the visors.

Superb victory from Aleix from 12th on the gird and what a move on Bagnaia. Martin takes second in the championship despite being penalised for the contact with Binder. Pleased to see Brad back on the block. Bez's late braking attempt at Hangar was bizarre - particularly since he was attempting it on Pecco.

I'm also trying to work out why Pecco wasn't penalised for crossing onto the green on the last lap..

Apparently the sensor wasn't triggered. I'll bet that Binder's well pissed about this after what happened at Assen. Also, Ducati/Tardozzi - never shy to brandish the rule book under the noses of the race stewards - insisted that the rule stipulates that track limits are only relevant if the rider behind is close enough to potentially overtake, and Brad was not. KTMs appeal fell on deaf ears.

After a record breaking heatwave, it's been one of the worst summers in recent memory here in the UK largely due to the fact that the jet stream has been parked over France meaning that high pressure from the continent can't migrate any further north and a relentless precession of rainfall gets a free pass. We've had to contend with a continual conveyor belt of north Atlantic depressions remorselessly battering the country since the start of July. Anyone watching the race might have felt the misery, ('Shiverstone' can be brutal when the winds coming in from the north), but this was balmy compared to what we've been experiencing recently. Today however, was the first time I've ridden in to work for seven weeks due to the very shit, shit weather. Once this happens in Blighty, you can write off not just a few days or weeks, but the entire season. Rain showers are forecast again for tomorrow. So many splattering the country that the doppler radar map looks like a Jackson Pollock painting or one of those Rorschach tests.

 

[edgelett]

Apparently the sensor wasn't triggered. I'll bet that Binder's well pissed about this after what happened at Assen. Also, Ducati/Tardozzi - never shy to brandish the rule book under the noses of the race stewards - insisted that the rule stipulates that track limits are only relevant if the rider behind is close enough to potentially overtake, and Brad was not. KTMs appeal fell on deaf ears.

I was wondering if KTM would protest.
man that sucks - and what a weird rule, he was cutting the corner to try to get AHEAD not cause he was worried about who was behind.

 

[edgelett]

apolgies for the late post.

that sprint race - wow.
Martin finished 3rd after knocking off half the field, and all he gets is a long lap penalty in the NEXT race - he gets to keep his podium.
that was insane.

main race, I'll admit I fell asleep cause I'd been at a car race the previous 3 days and was exhausted lol.
A frustrating ride from Miller. I'll be surprised if he keeps his seat, and I love the guy.
Pecco pretty much has that championship secure now.
Marquez, well at least he finished this time.
Good to see Vale at the track for this race too - i felt for him when Martin knocked out his whole team in the sprint.

 

[edgelett]

that was one of the most horrific starts to a race I've seen in a long time.
wow.

 

[Bomverh69]

Bad that they kept showing the crash before knowing Pecco was okay and even worse that they filmed the garage and his girlfriend for their reaction!!!!

This was on TNT sport in the UK not sure about other coverage.