MotoGP
- Thread starter edgelett
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FTR London
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Again, so many riders complaining about the inconsistent grip levels. I can't believe how early Pecco (and others) lost the front - and we've seen it time and time here. Nonetheless, another unforced error on his behalf and I wondered how he'd respond once Rins started upping the lap times and ratcheting up the pressure. Impressive ride and I'm delighted for Lucio Cecchinello. Márquez will have been watching this knowing he could have won it. I missed the sprint race on Saturday because having been accustomed to this sport and ingrained in the routine since childhood I simply forgot about the new format.
Moto 2 saw an entertaining battle between Arbolino and Acosta, but very disappointed for Dixon who seemed to have crashed out of the warm up lap due to a cold rear.
Moto 3 - incredible recovery from Ortola.
Awful circuit this. I went to the inaugural race ten years ago - great facilities but the track is just a poor man's Silverstone. Would love to see the US GP return to Laguna Seca or even somewhere new like Road America - which although far from perfect at least both have character.
edgelett
Well-known member
agree - I hate this track. boring as bat shit.
can't believe Laguna Seca was ditched and they kept this ridiculous track with those stupid hats.
edgelett
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that race had everything.
What a win by Pecco, glad he and Miller are still good mates after all that.
Binder couldn't have done much more, he was sliding everywhere.
some awesome passes going on, great to see the KTMs on the podium.
Shame Miller won't get that boat though lol
and what the heck happened with Vinales' chain falling off at the end!
What a win by Pecco, glad he and Miller are still good mates after all that.
Binder couldn't have done much more, he was sliding everywhere.
some awesome passes going on, great to see the KTMs on the podium.
Shame Miller won't get that boat though lol
and what the heck happened with Vinales' chain falling off at the end!
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FTR London
Well-known member
Binder and Miller love these sprint races don't they? That and the bikes sliding and getting loose due to the track surface temperature. KTMs working really well and their launch system is ridiculous. Have gone back to a mechanical clutch which gives much more feel than a hydraulic clutch which can be grabby and inconsistent. Watch the entire grid follow suit. The way they rocketed off the line was incredible. Also, KTM were testing at Jerez a fortnight ago with Pedrosa so already had their electronic strategy in the bag. Heavy fall for Bezzecchi that, nasty.
Great back to back wins in Moto 3 for Ortolá and an enthralling finish. Incredible corner speed through the final three turns. Terrible luck for Yamanaka who was looking very strong.
Moto 2, great consistency from Lowes - mid 41s throughout most of the race. I loved the confidence of that first lap move on López who I had down to win this - (although Acosta was the favourite). Hasn't won in Moto 2 since Misano 2021. Acosta dropped the pace and happy to settle for 2nd - this was Lowes' day. Solid sixth for Dixon after the disaster of last race.
Everyone went for the medium rear in the main race instead of the soft rear for the sprint. Long left handers at Jerez cause excessive wear. 43° track temp, compared to the 50° of yesterday, so given the race length and the cooler track, I really thought the KTMs were never going to feature as strongly on the Sunday's full distance - well, 24 laps after the red flag. I was wrong.
Again, an incident at turn 2 - so common at this circuit. The long lap penalty was harsh for Morbidelli but the decision to impose one of Quartararo was just embarrassing. Loris Capirossi of all people should appreciate the reality of a first lap incident through a tight hairpin first gear corner. These sort of crashes have happened since the dawn of racing ffs. Absurd. Shocking. Terrible decision. Then to have to re-take it. Meanwhile, Miller was wide, Pecco went for the gap (Rossi was a master of this), forced him to sit up and penalised by race control. Utterly bizarre.
Pecco- round the outside, first lap at Pedrosa corner on Martin?? Impossible. Brilliant move. Pure por fuera - I wonder what Lorenzo thought who was there in person? Great tyre management from the world champion - was never going to settle for 20 points, bided his time. What a finish!! and what a fight from Binder. Great stuff.
How unlucky was Viñales throwing a chain on the last lap?
Great ride from Pedrosa.
Márquez back at Le Mans.
Completely agree with this -
Great back to back wins in Moto 3 for Ortolá and an enthralling finish. Incredible corner speed through the final three turns. Terrible luck for Yamanaka who was looking very strong.
Moto 2, great consistency from Lowes - mid 41s throughout most of the race. I loved the confidence of that first lap move on López who I had down to win this - (although Acosta was the favourite). Hasn't won in Moto 2 since Misano 2021. Acosta dropped the pace and happy to settle for 2nd - this was Lowes' day. Solid sixth for Dixon after the disaster of last race.
Everyone went for the medium rear in the main race instead of the soft rear for the sprint. Long left handers at Jerez cause excessive wear. 43° track temp, compared to the 50° of yesterday, so given the race length and the cooler track, I really thought the KTMs were never going to feature as strongly on the Sunday's full distance - well, 24 laps after the red flag. I was wrong.
Again, an incident at turn 2 - so common at this circuit. The long lap penalty was harsh for Morbidelli but the decision to impose one of Quartararo was just embarrassing. Loris Capirossi of all people should appreciate the reality of a first lap incident through a tight hairpin first gear corner. These sort of crashes have happened since the dawn of racing ffs. Absurd. Shocking. Terrible decision. Then to have to re-take it. Meanwhile, Miller was wide, Pecco went for the gap (Rossi was a master of this), forced him to sit up and penalised by race control. Utterly bizarre.
Pecco- round the outside, first lap at Pedrosa corner on Martin?? Impossible. Brilliant move. Pure por fuera - I wonder what Lorenzo thought who was there in person? Great tyre management from the world champion - was never going to settle for 20 points, bided his time. What a finish!! and what a fight from Binder. Great stuff.
How unlucky was Viñales throwing a chain on the last lap?
Great ride from Pedrosa.
Márquez back at Le Mans.
Completely agree with this -
FTR London
Well-known member
https://www.autosport.com/motogp/news/fim-announces-new-womens-world-championship-for-2024/10462391/
Great news this. Will be a supporting series to WSB.
Great news this. Will be a supporting series to WSB.
FTR London
Well-known member
Le Mans - no rainfall? What? Record crowd and the characteristically fervent French fans.
Thing about these sprint races is that the lap times tend to be actually slower by the cut and trust. Such a narrow racing line here, yet so many opportunities to pass. Great race and a well needed win for Martin. Can't believe some riders went out on the medium front - I think Jack was one of them. Incredible watching the shapes Marc is throwing on that Honda and the work that he puts in trying to make up the deficit on the brakes. Seven weeks off the bike - Le Mans is very physical, hard braking zones and directional changes. Garage Vert, so hard to get the bike stopped. impressive.
Main race - shame that Álex Márquez screwed up Binder's potential for a second podium - and the long lap penalty was game over. Can't really call the collision between Pecco and Mav without resorting to the 'racing incident' cliché. Stunning ride from Fernández. Kudos to Marini - took too much curb and tried to save it with his elbow. Nowhere for A Márquez to go. Great battle between Marc and Martin. Hard front versus soft - looked for the cutback, asked too much. Still not finished a full GP all year. Terrible weekend for Jack. Terrible season for Mir. Crash fest today - just 13 finishers.
Bezzecchi in a race of his own today - must be relishing the prospect of Mugello. Class apart today.
No time this weekend to watch 2 and 3.
Great to see Ago here for the thousandth GP.
Thing about these sprint races is that the lap times tend to be actually slower by the cut and trust. Such a narrow racing line here, yet so many opportunities to pass. Great race and a well needed win for Martin. Can't believe some riders went out on the medium front - I think Jack was one of them. Incredible watching the shapes Marc is throwing on that Honda and the work that he puts in trying to make up the deficit on the brakes. Seven weeks off the bike - Le Mans is very physical, hard braking zones and directional changes. Garage Vert, so hard to get the bike stopped. impressive.
Main race - shame that Álex Márquez screwed up Binder's potential for a second podium - and the long lap penalty was game over. Can't really call the collision between Pecco and Mav without resorting to the 'racing incident' cliché. Stunning ride from Fernández. Kudos to Marini - took too much curb and tried to save it with his elbow. Nowhere for A Márquez to go. Great battle between Marc and Martin. Hard front versus soft - looked for the cutback, asked too much. Still not finished a full GP all year. Terrible weekend for Jack. Terrible season for Mir. Crash fest today - just 13 finishers.
Bezzecchi in a race of his own today - must be relishing the prospect of Mugello. Class apart today.
No time this weekend to watch 2 and 3.
Great to see Ago here for the thousandth GP.
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edgelett
Well-known member
a race of attrition - lots crashed out, sad to see Miller lose it in the main race after crashing in the sprint. his boat is getting further away....
Great ride by Bezzecchi though.
as for MM - he's behind Pedrosa in the points. yikes.
the incident between Pecco and Mav was, in my view, not really anyone's fault - they were both racing hard. It got heated afterwards though!
Great to see the 2 Pramac lads on the podium.
Great ride by Bezzecchi though.
as for MM - he's behind Pedrosa in the points. yikes.
the incident between Pecco and Mav was, in my view, not really anyone's fault - they were both racing hard. It got heated afterwards though!
Great to see the 2 Pramac lads on the podium.
FTR London
Well-known member
Thought that we might have a white flag sprint race - but then, after half distance, no one in their right mind is going to come in and change bikes with only five laps remaining, so we will inevitably at some stage see them teeter round in teeming stair rods. Cue Brad Binder. Anyway, in the event it amounted to nothing more than 'mental rain', drops on the visor. Talking of Binder, was a tad disappointed to see his charge curtailed by another harsh and needless long lap penalty. Entertaining race, but this Ducati domination is getting tedious. I know it's Mugello, but the bike looks so balanced and sorted in terms of the aero meaning that it's practically unassailable.
Main race like the sprint, hard front/soft rear combination of choice - Pecco, medium rear. The way that Marc Márquez is riding that RCV is utterly astonishing. The risks that he has to take making up time on the brakes is terrifying to watch. The front end loss at Buccini was inevitable. What can he do? ride round half a second slower like the rest of the HRC riders and settle for tenth places? To be fair, he did run wide, but several years ago he would have saved that. Get him on a factory Ducati, I reckon there's a ninth title in him. Still the fastest short circuit motorcycle rider on the planet. Problem is, he has a year and a half left on his contract. Still the favourite going into Sachsenring next. Only Honda still circulating after Marc's crash was Nakagami, eight seconds off the pace. Ok, granted, no Rins, no Mir. I can honestly see HRC walking.
Congratulations to Pecco, fifth win in sixth years at Mugello for Ducati, Bagnaia two years on the trot - but a Ducati top five...until Alex Márquez binned it, and that's without Bastianini being up to speed and with Bezzecchi making a mistake and Digi still not gelling with the bike. Depressing - although I concede, the very DNA of Ducati is extracted and cloned from this track.
Loved the classy vintage Biaggi livery on the Aprilia.
Casanova Savelli plummeting down into the Arrabbiata complex must be one of the most gorgeous strips of asphalt on the planet. Ducati domination or not, can the race calendar just consist of intermittent races at Mugello and Philip Island?
"Ma quanto è bello il Mugello"!
Main race like the sprint, hard front/soft rear combination of choice - Pecco, medium rear. The way that Marc Márquez is riding that RCV is utterly astonishing. The risks that he has to take making up time on the brakes is terrifying to watch. The front end loss at Buccini was inevitable. What can he do? ride round half a second slower like the rest of the HRC riders and settle for tenth places? To be fair, he did run wide, but several years ago he would have saved that. Get him on a factory Ducati, I reckon there's a ninth title in him. Still the fastest short circuit motorcycle rider on the planet. Problem is, he has a year and a half left on his contract. Still the favourite going into Sachsenring next. Only Honda still circulating after Marc's crash was Nakagami, eight seconds off the pace. Ok, granted, no Rins, no Mir. I can honestly see HRC walking.
Congratulations to Pecco, fifth win in sixth years at Mugello for Ducati, Bagnaia two years on the trot - but a Ducati top five...until Alex Márquez binned it, and that's without Bastianini being up to speed and with Bezzecchi making a mistake and Digi still not gelling with the bike. Depressing - although I concede, the very DNA of Ducati is extracted and cloned from this track.
Loved the classy vintage Biaggi livery on the Aprilia.
Casanova Savelli plummeting down into the Arrabbiata complex must be one of the most gorgeous strips of asphalt on the planet. Ducati domination or not, can the race calendar just consist of intermittent races at Mugello and Philip Island?
"Ma quanto è bello il Mugello"!
edgelett
Well-known member
if that's the view then so would Yamaha.
Truth is, Honda built their bike entirely around MM and he's not at his best therefore they can't get the bike to work - he's been off it too long for them to develop it properly.
Race itself was quite boring other than a few interesting passes.
hopefully the next race has a bit more spicey racing.
FTR London
Well-known member
It's not that simple though. HRC did develop the RCV solely around Marc's style and strengths, to an extent, we've known that for years - but the issues go way beyond that when even he can't ride the thing anymore. Remember, Honda don't build bikes around riders, their philosophy is completely the reverse which is one of the main reasons that Rossi walked. They just build bloody good ones. What's happened is that Marc is such a freak, they have been left with an beast that no one can tame, much like the situation with Stoner at Ducati. Remember, it was becoming too savage and unmanageable even for him before the accident at Jerez - the warning signs were there. As you say, his prolonged absence didn't help, during which time they were completely directionless and left with a blunt tool that no one knew how to sharpen and hone. It's the worst bike on the grid and in terms of development, the they are now a rudderless ship. To be honest, I don't think that they will walk, but I have heard it suggested from a reliable sources and I can see them threatening it and it would be a good way to take stock and rebuild without the expenditure. Same for Yamaha. Suzuki did the same in 2011 and built back stronger, returning three years later and then claiming a their first title in 2020 since KRjnr two decades before. It reminds me of World Superbike when the IL4s were limited to 750cc displacement and it became the Ducati cup. You couldn't win unless you were on a 998, and although HRC built the SP1/SP2 and won a title with Edwards, they wanted to race the blade because that was their showroom flagship model, same with Yamaha and the R1, Suzuki and the Gixxer- so the Japanese marques left the series and later came back stronger. The issue is, that Ducati are so far ahead in terms of aero, that other factories are playing catch up, whilst Honda and Yamaha are in a different race. The fact that Marc can still push for podiums is utterly astonishing and Ducati will fear him being tempted to a move to KTM or Aprilia because he could conceivably beat their riders. He's still that fast. Honda threatening to leave would be a huge hammerblow for the series and a way of enforcing restrictive regulations on the further development of aero. HRC have always managed to manipulate the sport historically behind the scenes through the MSMA but seem to lack that clout. This cannot continue for them.
I have to say, I got this completely wrong. I predicted that last year's RCV would be a formidable tool, since then, the situation has got an order of magnitude worse. At least the M1 is rideable, albeit completely off the pace. I was also wrong about Pol, who had hoped to be back earlier, (I was thinking Le Mans). From what I've read, the return is close and we could see him racing again before the summer break - so perhaps Assen? Let's hope so.
Regarding the next race - Sachsenring is a complete oddity, it goes left, a tight physical circuit and Marc's won there, what, ten times? Ducati won't be able to dominate as they did last weekend at their test circuit and back yard.
FTR London
Well-known member
Another great read from my good mate 'Oost'.
https://www.espn.co.uk/racing/story/_/id/36321517/trying-id-motogp-rider-check-their-butt
https://www.espn.co.uk/racing/story/_/id/36321517/trying-id-motogp-rider-check-their-butt
FTR London
Well-known member
Indeed.
Well he certainly handed it out in today's sprint race. It's a very narrow race line at Sachsenring - Binder held it, in line with Marini and Zarco came from inside, made contact and effectively rammed him off the track. Again, people shaking their heads in the paddock over the inconsistency of the race stewards.
Absolutely brilliant ride by Martin. He now needs to bag a full GP win. That incredible pass over the blind crest at t12 won the race - and he was on the absolute limit throughout. He has a huge point to prove after being beaten to the factory seat by Bastianini.
We can pretty much say that the HRC/Marquez marriage from heaven is approaching its inevitable messy divorce. He's contracted until the end of 2024, but €25m per year aside, I can see a clandestine deal being made with another factory (KTM?) and him buying himself out. Ten seconds off the front runners and tenth out of 18 race finishers at a track he's never been beaten on. It goes left, it's tight, it's ballsy - it's pure Marc. Had he not have made some spectacular saves this weekend, he would have crashed at least 8 times.
Yamaha too, but at least the M1 isn't trying to put you in intensive care at every corner. Very hard to see where this is going. Quarteraro thirteenth, Morbidelli fifteenth. Are they and HRC prepared to throw more yen at aero? Will the series limit its further development?
So much for my prediction that the Ducatis wouldn't feature so strongly at such a quirky circuit. Ducati first, second, fourth, fifth, seventh, eight, tenth. and twelfth. Depressing.
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FTR London
Well-known member
Another horrible highside for Marc this morning. Ruled out with a broken finger.
There was contact between Binder and Zarco on lap three yesterday that I hadn't noticed, which was a consequence of an aggressive move by Brad. Cancels out what happened later and perhaps the stewards deemed that to be the case? Saying that, Binder's move should also had been under review then and it wasn't. Each infraction should be considered independently. I felt that Zarco's move was worse than Binder's, largely because of where it was - very risky. Perhaps justice was done in the end, but not through any consistency by race control. Apparently, Zarco had been having ride height issues on the first two laps and they vanished by lap 3, so perhaps Binder inadvertently did him a favour. Whatever, good to see that Zarco was uninjured by what that horrific collision with Márquez that has been previously mentioned.
I like Sachsenring. It's unusual, quirky and an oddity with significant pedigree - and always attracts a huge fanatical attendance. Safety concerns me though. Amusing to think that during the two stroke years this was always regarded as a 'Yamaha' circuit. Only three Japanese machines on the grid. When was the last time you could say that? Track temperature today, 45° - left side front and rear asymmetric, but with track temperature so high I wasn't surprised to see most opt for the hard front medium rear in the absence of track time in these conditions and unlike the sprint, tyre management being so significant. Aleix opted for the soft rear and highly entertaining in the early stages - finished 17th, ludicrous choice. Quartararo too, but then Yamaha had absolutely nothing to lose by the gamble. Interesting to see Bez and Pecco using double/wet weather sliders on the left where a conventional one can wear through in a race here.
Miller looked so good, like yesterday, but other riders could pass him at will at Ralf Waldemann curve/waterfall/turn 11 on - a sitting duck. Really odd that he couldn't find a line through the final three corners. Zarco on the other hand...
Martin's riding style is exquisite not dissimilar to Enea. Also, the way he stands the bike up is quite reminiscent of the 990 era. Can't help thinking if the Beast had been fit with his shoulder, we would have had a three-way battle here. Loved the way Pecco tried to break him at the key point of the race and he responded with a 1.21.3 which was a tenth quicker than Pecco's pole. Kudos for the second push and a great pass at T.11. Martin - "I can do that too", incredible response. Brilliant defensive riding from Martin. What a finish six hundreds of a second! First GP victory for Jorge since 2021. Real statement made today. He needed this after last year's nightmare of a season. Stunning ride, but Pecco would have probably won this had it not been for the contact on the penultimate lap. Martin put his bike in all the right places.
At least we know that there is equity between the factory and satellite Ducatis and I like the way that they share data, but all eight Ducatis in the top ten today. Last time that they won here was Stoner in 2007.
Zarco last lap save!
Heavy crash for Binder at T.8 - looked like he tried to save a front end slide instead of picking it up and running into the gravel.
At least Viñales didn't mean to blow it up this time.
There was contact between Binder and Zarco on lap three yesterday that I hadn't noticed, which was a consequence of an aggressive move by Brad. Cancels out what happened later and perhaps the stewards deemed that to be the case? Saying that, Binder's move should also had been under review then and it wasn't. Each infraction should be considered independently. I felt that Zarco's move was worse than Binder's, largely because of where it was - very risky. Perhaps justice was done in the end, but not through any consistency by race control. Apparently, Zarco had been having ride height issues on the first two laps and they vanished by lap 3, so perhaps Binder inadvertently did him a favour. Whatever, good to see that Zarco was uninjured by what that horrific collision with Márquez that has been previously mentioned.
I like Sachsenring. It's unusual, quirky and an oddity with significant pedigree - and always attracts a huge fanatical attendance. Safety concerns me though. Amusing to think that during the two stroke years this was always regarded as a 'Yamaha' circuit. Only three Japanese machines on the grid. When was the last time you could say that? Track temperature today, 45° - left side front and rear asymmetric, but with track temperature so high I wasn't surprised to see most opt for the hard front medium rear in the absence of track time in these conditions and unlike the sprint, tyre management being so significant. Aleix opted for the soft rear and highly entertaining in the early stages - finished 17th, ludicrous choice. Quartararo too, but then Yamaha had absolutely nothing to lose by the gamble. Interesting to see Bez and Pecco using double/wet weather sliders on the left where a conventional one can wear through in a race here.
Miller looked so good, like yesterday, but other riders could pass him at will at Ralf Waldemann curve/waterfall/turn 11 on - a sitting duck. Really odd that he couldn't find a line through the final three corners. Zarco on the other hand...
Martin's riding style is exquisite not dissimilar to Enea. Also, the way he stands the bike up is quite reminiscent of the 990 era. Can't help thinking if the Beast had been fit with his shoulder, we would have had a three-way battle here. Loved the way Pecco tried to break him at the key point of the race and he responded with a 1.21.3 which was a tenth quicker than Pecco's pole. Kudos for the second push and a great pass at T.11. Martin - "I can do that too", incredible response. Brilliant defensive riding from Martin. What a finish six hundreds of a second! First GP victory for Jorge since 2021. Real statement made today. He needed this after last year's nightmare of a season. Stunning ride, but Pecco would have probably won this had it not been for the contact on the penultimate lap. Martin put his bike in all the right places.
At least we know that there is equity between the factory and satellite Ducatis and I like the way that they share data, but all eight Ducatis in the top ten today. Last time that they won here was Stoner in 2007.
Zarco last lap save!
Heavy crash for Binder at T.8 - looked like he tried to save a front end slide instead of picking it up and running into the gravel.
At least Viñales didn't mean to blow it up this time.