kiwi dave
Active member
But how do you get the tune onto your ECU? Won't you need a PV3 or equivalent to do this?
If you can do it without expensive equipment, I'm all ears!
Loydz Bench Tune
- Thread starter FTR London
- Start date
If you can do it without expensive equipment, I'm all ears!
Yeah, that's a good point. I may be mistaken.
Max Kool
Well-known member
I actually think you need a license AND a tune (unless you want to use the free Dynojet tunes).
A tune alone won’t be enough to flash a second bike afaik.
edgelett
Well-known member
the PV3 with a tune is one price (quite expensive)
a PV3 on its own is a bit expensive
a tune on it's own is rather cheap
the cost of a tune on its own is not the same as the cost of a PV3 or a Pv3 with tune.
You were saying that the cost of a tune on its own was the same as a PV3, it isnt.
You could buy a 2nd hand Pv3 from someone at a good price, then buy a tune for it.
I just sold my PV3 for $200 AU. a person can get a tune for that for only a couple hundred bucks, which is a LOT cheaper than the $800+ AU for a Pv3 and tune together.
FTR London
Well-known member
So I'll use this thread at the risk of derailing it - because I started it and it's not worth starting a fresh one with the below.
@edgelett I've attempted to realign the Toce system to bolt the hanger at the back of the bracket and it simply isn't going to happen. Your version will however, as an earlier video testifies, and I have received confirmation from the manufacturer that this is indeed the correct way. However, given the latest system that I have been sent I will personally pay for Dan Toce's airfare to fly out to the UK and cover all expenses to demonstrate to him that irrespective of what they say, this exhaust system is not going on the back of that bracket. He is welcome to try.
I can realign the headers/head pipes to some extent, and through sheer brute force get it almost behind the bracket but there is zero clearance from the swingarm and actually I would speculate double the stress exerted on the bracket than if it were to go in at the front - which it does, effortlessly and it sits at the same angle and clearance as all of yours. I'm happy with that - but hopefully there will be another member of this forum that orders the current system on a 2019 bike an I would welcome any feedback.
Back to the OP, time to summon the mystical elixir from 'Thor'...
@edgelett I've attempted to realign the Toce system to bolt the hanger at the back of the bracket and it simply isn't going to happen. Your version will however, as an earlier video testifies, and I have received confirmation from the manufacturer that this is indeed the correct way. However, given the latest system that I have been sent I will personally pay for Dan Toce's airfare to fly out to the UK and cover all expenses to demonstrate to him that irrespective of what they say, this exhaust system is not going on the back of that bracket. He is welcome to try.
I can realign the headers/head pipes to some extent, and through sheer brute force get it almost behind the bracket but there is zero clearance from the swingarm and actually I would speculate double the stress exerted on the bracket than if it were to go in at the front - which it does, effortlessly and it sits at the same angle and clearance as all of yours. I'm happy with that - but hopefully there will be another member of this forum that orders the current system on a 2019 bike an I would welcome any feedback.Back to the OP, time to summon the mystical elixir from 'Thor'...
This is the version you have. On a 2019rr.
that I installed on my buddies bike.
that I installed on my buddies bike.
FTR London
Well-known member
Thank you for your reply. Yeah, I watched that video and it was really helpful. I thought that was an earlier version of the pipe though. My bad.
Notice how effortlessly it goes in in your vid. The system simply won't go on the back of the bracket I'm afraid - I thought it was just me and trust me, am the first to admit when I am wrong. I attempted it again today, the entire thing off and handed it over to a former race engineer who laboured for two hours. The end can will not clear the swing arm. We aligned the headers, ensured they were parallel and actually identically situated to yours. You can then force it in at the back but with huge resistance and there is then only a few millimetres of clearance from the swingarm. Tried aligning the cannister - putting the springs on last as they suggested - absolutely no way. Not happening - it's a completely different orientation to your video. You can attribute this to our apparent incompetence and I understand that it seems that way, but it is physically impossible to locate this at the back of the bracket like so...
...without impacting the swingarm. This is what I was sent. Amused me that you can even see blemishes on the swingarm - possibly during installation.
Thing is, it sits beautifully as it is at the front. The headers protrude fractionally more, but it's negligible. The issue it the angle of of the can when its in behind. Like I said, no way with zero clearance I'd want it there. I'll order the Toce bracket which is stronger than the stock.
Thanks again for your reply.
FTR London
Well-known member
I have been, but I'll speak to them again. I honestly can't see how it's precisely the same in orientation as yours. It fits beautifully on the outside and I prefer it there. I'll definitely order the aftermarket bracket.
I’d take it all apart and lube the joints really good with wd40. Don’t attach any of the springs or tighten the aft header clamp till the muffler is on the bracket.
Can take some rubber mallet persuasion.
Can take some rubber mallet persuasion.
FTR London
Well-known member
Thanks Mike - and it makes complete sense. We did all of that working back from the cannister on the bracket first and even down to the rubber mallet, but it wouldn't marry up and to get it to do so there was zero clearance from the swingarm and enormous pressure exerted on the bracket. I may be inclined to try again but it's more a case of vandalism than persuasion and I'm reluctant to force such a beautiful system. It should be a breeze and this really isn't. No matter what we did the entire system was in protest and shouldn't take two (at one stage three) people to manhandle it on. Those guys who trust me, have played before were unwilling to apply any further force. It was immediately naturally aligned - including the angle of the muffler on the hanger, to the front of the bracket. I think if that is replaced then there is no issue whatsoever, but I completely get what you are saying about hanging it from the rear on the systems that you have fitted. Thank you again for your comments, and I really do appreciate your insight. Like I said, I'd like to fly Dan Toce and his team into Heathrow, collect them, bring them here, pull up a camping chair with beer holder and popcorn and defy them to do this.
Credit to those guys - I rode the bike briefly after fitting and again to a friend's garage/maintenance shop today - and even in that short distance, the difference is immediately striking (not referring to the noise). Even without the tune you can tell that this is a bespoke system engineered around the bike. It's really quite brilliant. The transformation is... remarkable. I can only imagine what this is going to be like once the V6 imbued ECU is back in.
@Charliemurphay - been a tad busy with work and other things to even contemplate the bar switch which is of course more involved that I had assumed due to the pins in the hand controls. Locating and removing these I would imagine is yet another black art and I'm guessing I'll have to drill the new bars to accommodate this. They absolutely will be going on because I really don't like the others, so I'll post when done.
That’s crazy. Hopefully it gets worked out. First time I’ve seen an issue like this.
FTR London
Well-known member
Version 6 installed. Cold start...what cold start?
This thing was borderline unrideable below 75°. Couldn't warm it up in the morning when not working from home, because it takes five minutes and with an exhaust as loud as it was (this is even louder now) that wouldn't go down well at 6.30am. - so I had to take my chances and ride the thing. Used to take at least five miles to start behaving. Before that it would stall - so violently on one occasion that I thought it had simultaneously given me whiplash and put my back out - and jerk and judder so intensely that one morning it went onto one pot and the engine management light came on. Absolute fucking liability. It was like riding a wild bull.
Clipped the Lloyd'z enhanced ECU back in, jumped on for a test ride - straight from cold, instead of the usual half a dozen cranks, started immediately. Pulled off, tensed up and tentative ready for the bucking bronco ride...smooth as butter. Linear throttle, sharp, no irritable snatchiness, but fluid and immediate. Suddenly I'm riding a normal bike. It's as though a Priest, swinging the incense burner, has sprinkled it with holy water recited the Athanasian Creed and performed an exorcism ritual. The things still a beast, but a tamed one and thankfully one that isn't trying to kill me anymore.
Fuelled up, went for a fifteen mile ride. The cacophony on the overrun has gone from an artillery barrage to the occasional bunker buster scale backfire. It stifles its cackling politely on closed throttle as opposed to the peels of thunder that it used to produce and it pulls...hard. Only thing is, the new baffle-less Toce exhaust is at least twenty dBs louder than the previous one - and instead of that gorgeous deep booming throb of a twin, it sounds angrier, more rasping, racier and raw which belies the newly refined machine beneath me.
Most importantly, I installed this tune, not for a pronounced increase power as some seem to expect (yeah, you can immediately detect the improvement to peak power, but it's the monster torque that attracts me - and that's now far more useable) - but to remedy the utterly abysmal fuelling. The bike is smoother all round and the greatest enhancement is the throttle response. It has also eliminated most of the non-commanded throttle "blips" and the surging, and in tandem with the Toce exhaust system, feels altogether like a different motorcycle.
It's almost taken the challenge out of it.
Busy with work and riding to the Welsh borders to visit friends at the weekend so the bars will have to go on next week. After that, maybe the tracker seat and cowl and perhaps change the controls and pegs, but I'm pretty much done in my mission to make this actually vaguely resemble the flat track racer that it purports to be.
This thing was borderline unrideable below 75°. Couldn't warm it up in the morning when not working from home, because it takes five minutes and with an exhaust as loud as it was (this is even louder now) that wouldn't go down well at 6.30am. - so I had to take my chances and ride the thing. Used to take at least five miles to start behaving. Before that it would stall - so violently on one occasion that I thought it had simultaneously given me whiplash and put my back out - and jerk and judder so intensely that one morning it went onto one pot and the engine management light came on. Absolute fucking liability. It was like riding a wild bull.
Clipped the Lloyd'z enhanced ECU back in, jumped on for a test ride - straight from cold, instead of the usual half a dozen cranks, started immediately. Pulled off, tensed up and tentative ready for the bucking bronco ride...smooth as butter. Linear throttle, sharp, no irritable snatchiness, but fluid and immediate. Suddenly I'm riding a normal bike. It's as though a Priest, swinging the incense burner, has sprinkled it with holy water recited the Athanasian Creed and performed an exorcism ritual. The things still a beast, but a tamed one and thankfully one that isn't trying to kill me anymore.
Fuelled up, went for a fifteen mile ride. The cacophony on the overrun has gone from an artillery barrage to the occasional bunker buster scale backfire. It stifles its cackling politely on closed throttle as opposed to the peels of thunder that it used to produce and it pulls...hard. Only thing is, the new baffle-less Toce exhaust is at least twenty dBs louder than the previous one - and instead of that gorgeous deep booming throb of a twin, it sounds angrier, more rasping, racier and raw which belies the newly refined machine beneath me.
Most importantly, I installed this tune, not for a pronounced increase power as some seem to expect (yeah, you can immediately detect the improvement to peak power, but it's the monster torque that attracts me - and that's now far more useable) - but to remedy the utterly abysmal fuelling. The bike is smoother all round and the greatest enhancement is the throttle response. It has also eliminated most of the non-commanded throttle "blips" and the surging, and in tandem with the Toce exhaust system, feels altogether like a different motorcycle.
It's almost taken the challenge out of it.
Busy with work and riding to the Welsh borders to visit friends at the weekend so the bars will have to go on next week. After that, maybe the tracker seat and cowl and perhaps change the controls and pegs, but I'm pretty much done in my mission to make this actually vaguely resemble the flat track racer that it purports to be.
wallycycle
Member
I'm focusing on the the word "most" in your sentence. I guess that means you still experience them? On downshifts in the lower gears?
I just flashed the latest tune from Fuel Moto. I've been riding on their 2019 tune. Cold start shut downs and occasional throttle blipping on down shifting in the lower gears is what I've been experiencing. This latest tune they sent me eliminated the cold start thing, admittedly this time of year it's not very cold. But even in the summer, my bike previously would not keep idling on first start, regardless the temp. Had to restart or hold the throttle at high idle for 20-30 seconds to keep it running. I'm glad that's gone now. But I still experience the very occasional blip, especially on down shifts to third. Not a deal breaker. But I wouldn't spend the $ for the bench tune if it didn't absolutely eliminate that issue.
wallycycle
Member
Thanks for that. Are the ones you still experience primarily in the lower gears? I don't get any on down shifts to fifth or fourth.
FTR London
Well-known member
Initially, when first installed there was very little banging and crackling on the overrun - similarly virtually no uncommanded throttle blip on the downshift. This has returned, but as you say - into lower gears. Not something that bothers me in the slightest. Crucially, the cold start issue, cut outs and throttle hunting/surging is all a bad memory.
The V6 bench tune is excellent and works in beautiful harmony with the Toce full system. No complaints whatsoever. This bike is an absolute joy and a blast to ride.
wallycycle
Member
Thx for the feedback. Now I'm really curious why the brain trusts at Fuel Moto and Loydz can't work this out. Must be an inherent thing in the ECU that they can't get past. I've even tried taking my hand completely off the throttle when down shifting, thinking maybe I'm giving that RBW thing an imperceptible input. Still will do it. But as you say, it happens infrequently and not near as annoying as filling the gas tank.