Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU) - cold start problem and plenty diagnostic indications when reading the ECU

[passimakopoulos]

hi guys,

I bought my bike in November of 2019!
a little less than a month after I had the issue of the cold start.
Indian announced and did a recall on the fuses.
after changing them a few hundred metres away from the dealership in the traffic light once again the engine turned off again.

since then until today I've been having, apart from the engine stalling, another couple of issues from time to time.

from sport mode one day I noticed that it was changed into standard mode by itself ( that happened only once )

the fuel indicator even though Its fully loaded shows that it's 90% full. after 3 switch off and on is shown correctly ( that doesn't happen all the times )

the auto setting of the screen theme is not recognizing some times when it's day or night and it stays white during the night time and I have to manually change it even it is on the auto mode

But most of all my main issue is when my bike stays on neutral or when I'm changing gear ( that millisecond that I'm pressing the clutch ) the engine stops working and it restarts my screen.that has happened more than a dozen times.

the most dangerous part of that was when I was running with 160klmtr on the highway and when I wanted to change into fifth gear on a big left turn when I pressed the clutch to change the gear the engine stopped working!that has happened only once

from December till today I've been going to the dealership to do an ECU reading and sending all the reports back to POLARIS.
nothing has changed so far.

during the ECU reading, there is always a '' C2431: Inertial Measurement Unit ( IMU )'' indication on the diagnostics and many other faulty issues but not so serious to switch off my engine ( this is what I've been told from the head mechanic from my dealership )

yesterday my dealership send a huge email with all my history reports and a big unhappy customer warning to Indian headqurters

To be honest I am really satisfied with the performance of my bike and I really love it.
but I'm not sure what my legal rights are!

even though I have a 2-year warranty and won't pay a penny I'm a bit unsatisfied with all these technical issues.
I personally believe is a faulty ECU and needs to be replaced but can I claim to be given a new bike if the problem isn't fixed?

This Monday I'm going to give my bike to the dealership to do their testings with the Polaris instructions and I will be given an Indian bobber till they fix it or as soon as they have any conclusion. The dealership doesn't have any clew of what is happening with my bike!

Has anybody, apart from the cold start, had any further issues with their ftr 1200 s?

Can you please give me any help with similar experiences ?

thanks a lot,

Panos.

​

 

[K9F]

For the life of me I cannot find it but there was an individual who had issues and yes he did get a replacement bike. There are plenty of issues that people have had with regards to cutting out, erratic running and so forth. You need to do a search across the two forums to see what fits with your scenario.

My minor issues were sorted with an aftermarket tune from one of the reputable tuners.

It is nice to hear that your dealership seems to be helping you. This is the same dealership that several commented on yourself included stating they didn't seem to know what they were doing and that the FTR came with GPS maps was it not? My question is thus: Do they know what they are doing now I wonder?

You claim you think it is a faulty ECU? Generally they're not faulty but the software therein could/should have been a lot better out of the box. My advice for starters is stick a tune in and see where you are afterwards? It'll run much better regardless.

 

[passimakopoulos]

For the life of me I cannot find it but there was an individual who had issues and yes he did get a replacement bike. There are plenty of issues that people have had with regards to cutting out, erratic running and so forth. You need to do a search across the two forums to see what fits with your scenario.

My minor issues were sorted with an aftermarket tune from one of the reputable tuners.

It is nice to hear that your dealership seems to be helping you. This is the same dealership that several commented on yourself included stating they didn't seem to know what they were doing and that the FTR came with GPS maps was it not? My question is thus: Do they know what they are doing now I wonder?

You claim you think it is a faulty ECU? Generally they're not faulty but the software therein could/should have been a lot better out of the box. My advice for starters is stick a tune in and see where you are afterwards? It'll run much better regardless.

for sure they won't accept the tune upload from power vision, I've been told that I will lose my warranty if I do that.
when I have asked that I might be asking for a new bike they told me that it won't be accepted from the headquarters!
the thing is that it's been almost a year with my mind always astounded and concerned about the bike when it will get switched off again.I'm always anxious about it.
for sure if it is not fixed in the future I will take legal actions!
and I will demand an extension of my 2-year warranty

thanks again for your reply!

 

[passimakopoulos]

For the life of me I cannot find it but there was an individual who had issues and yes he did get a replacement bike. There are plenty of issues that people have had with regards to cutting out, erratic running and so forth. You need to do a search across the two forums to see what fits with your scenario.

My minor issues were sorted with an aftermarket tune from one of the reputable tuners.

It is nice to hear that your dealership seems to be helping you. This is the same dealership that several commented on yourself included stating they didn't seem to know what they were doing and that the FTR came with GPS maps was it not? My question is thus: Do they know what they are doing now I wonder?

You claim you think it is a faulty ECU? Generally they're not faulty but the software therein could/should have been a lot better out of the box. My advice for starters is stick a tune in and see where you are afterwards? It'll run much better regardless.

yes, its same dealership in Athens Greece!
official Indian dealership

 

[K9F]

Good luck Monday. Legal action it may well be then! I wouldn't be returning the loan bike until the matter is resolved personally.

You may even get to like the Scout? My dealership owner whilst he loves his FTR he loves his Scout even more!

 

[passimakopoulos]

Good luck Monday. Legal action it may well be then! I wouldn't be returning the loan bike until the matter is resolved personally.

You may even get to like the Scout? My dealership owner whilst he loves his FTR he loves his Scout even more!

Do you mean that you wouldn't give the bike back to them to do the test runs etc?

they told me that I have to in order to run all the necessary tests instructed by Polaris

 

[K9F]

No I said I would be keeping the Indian Scout Bobber they are going to lend you whilst they work on your FTR until they are confident your FTR is fixed once and for all.

 

[passimakopoulos]

No I said I would be keeping the Indian Scout Bobber they are going to lend you whilst they work on your FTR until they are confident your FTR is fixed once and for all.

o yes, I manage to do that for sure!
but let me ask you something else.. let's say they tell me that is fixed and after a couple of days things return back to problems etc what should I do then? what would you do?
ask them to give me my money back?
ask them to replace my bike?

also, I want to be 100% honest I really hate the idea of leaving my bike to them to test it and ride it etc etc. I want my bike to be driven only by me!

and also the feeling that they have to unscrew any parts of a brand new bike to have things replaced also sucks.

I know its a brand new bike and not tested in the market for so long, till they improve stuff, but having an engine to shut off unexpectedly is a pretty bad thing for the Indian brand with such a big reputation and experience in the motorcycle world

 

[K9F]

Passimakopoulos, I know exactly what you mean but you have absolutely no other option but to allow them to try to work on your bike in an attempt to fix it. The differences between a dealer you trust and one you don't are large.

I had my dealership change the exhaust, fit a tail tidy, link pipe, bar end mirrors and bar end indicators before I even took delivery. I trust my dealership implicitly and everything I buy is discounted without me asking for discount. They value me obviously as much as I value them. That is a good dealership.....yours sucks BIG time.

It is a shame that they are taking the stance that fitting an aftermarket tune will void your warranty. I am almost certainly convinced that a decent tune may sort your issues out perhaps? Indian is restricted by what they can do with regards tuning and fact is whilst some profess that their bike has run better with the second OEM tune none will run as good as a tune from Ryan or Fuelmoto.

I suffered from cold start issues, a self induced dip in power at about 4000rpm due to decat pipe, erratic fuelling when shifting gear at higher rpms and once, once only cutting out underway. ALL have been eradicated with a tune.

If things persist I would seek professional advice in your country as to what you are entitled to by law and if the option is available ask for another new bike as the one you have is dangerous and not fit for purpose in my opinion.

You have a year of warranty left. You need to weigh up personal risk against that year of remaining warranty.
Me I would have tuned it before the stage you are at as you are not alone with such issues and they are well documented. In fact I did tune mine with more than a year warranty remaining.

 

[edgelett]

far out mate that's a LOT of issues.
as much as it sucks you unfortunately will need to let them hang on to the bike, ride it and work on it to fix it. they need to verify the things you say are happening ARE happening.
We know you're honest but for the dealer, they need to replicate the issues and try to fix it cause it's only if they can't that they will talk to Polaris.
Personally I think you should get a replacement given the problems but they need to look at it first.

Have you tried contacting Polaris directly?

PS - I love Athens, we visited in 2017. saw a guy with a car engine block strapped to the back of his scooter riding up the street haha

 

[Murdock]

For the life of me I cannot find it but there was an individual who had issues and yes he did get a replacement bike.

Yes, because he had an accident caused by the issue. It was a "mixed" deal with the insurance company and Indian but finally it ended up in a new bike with no extra costs for me.

By the way: If you have a larger number of diagnostic error codes, the reason is often a loose ground connection or another connection point that the components share. Maybe only a loose battery connection could cause this.

From a legal perspective please check this webpage that explains the European guarantee regulations. You can switch to you own language for better understanding. There is still a chance to return the bike or get a new one.

Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe

How to claim the 2-year guarantee for EU purchases, get a repair, replacement or refund, how to cancel orders made outside shops (online, by phone, mail order).

europa.eu

 

[K9F]

Thanks Murdock it has put my mind at rest. I searched both forums and I bloody knew it was someone that began with an 'M.' For some reason I was convinced it was 'Murr2k' close but not close enough.

 

[passimakopoulos]

Yes, because he had an accident caused by the issue. It was a "mixed" deal with the insurance company and Indian but finally it ended up in a new bike with no extra costs for me.

By the way: If you have a larger number of diagnostic error codes, the reason is often a loose ground connection or another connection point that the components share. Maybe only a loose battery connection could cause this.

From a legal perspective please check this webpage that explains the European guarantee regulations. You can switch to you own language for better understanding. There is still a chance to return the bike or get a new one.

Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe

How to claim the 2-year guarantee for EU purchases, get a repair, replacement or refund, how to cancel orders made outside shops (online, by phone, mail order).

europa.eu

thank you guys for all your support and guidance!

maybe one of those loose connections could be this Inertial Measurement Unit.

The software seems also to be bugged in a way as well
changing riding mode by itself doesn't seem to be a loose connection or something..either the reboot of the main console unit.
also, I haven't mentioned so far that on the ECU reading it shows that my bike turns off due to the side stand-down position. which obviously I don't turn off my engine in that way.and it shows that has happened 11 times.I thought that maybe the sensor of the side stand is a faulty cause that could be the only reason for turning off the engine! but on the other hand, when you are in neutral gear even when you get the side stand down it doesn't turn off.so I'm confused guys.

That's why I'm thinking that the ECU might be faulty

K9F I think you are right about this one '' erratic fuelling when shifting gear at higher RPMs ''

we will see this week what they will say to me!
for sure I'll keep you guys post it.

 

[FTRUK]

For the life of me I cannot find it but there was an individual who had issues and yes he did get a replacement bike. There are plenty of issues that people have had with regards to cutting out, erratic running and so forth. You need to do a search across the two forums to see what fits with your scenario.

My minor issues were sorted with an aftermarket tune from one of the reputable tuners.

It is nice to hear that your dealership seems to be helping you. This is the same dealership that several commented on yourself included stating they didn't seem to know what they were doing and that the FTR came with GPS maps was it not? My question is thus: Do they know what they are doing now I wonder?

You claim you think it is a faulty ECU? Generally they're not faulty but the software therein could/should have been a lot better out of the box. My advice for starters is stick a tune in and see where you are afterwards? It'll run much better regardless.

I had a replacement bike.
but I’ve not yet done the miles for first service and I want the retune done on first service.
not happy with bike at all, looks the part but hmmm.
i am from the UK so our consumer laws maybe different than others.

 

[mark.lb]

I honestly feel for everyone who is having serious problems with their new FTRs. As I stated in past posts I have had none of these issues and have no need or desire to get my ECU tuned. With 6500 miles on the clock my FTR is running great. I have not had a single check engine light or error code. It has never shut down while underway.
I often wonder if FTRs sold outside the USA in markets with stricter emissions standards (Euro6, etc.) and different gasoline blends just don’t run as well. I can’t imagine every Indian manufactured in Spirit Lake, Iowa is sent to countries all over the world with the same ECU calibration. Is it possible they just can’t give this 1203cc, high compression v-twin what it needs to run properly out of the box and meet the strict Euro6 standards?

 

[ferraiolo1]

It’s hit or miss. My buddies rr he bought from state college has stalled several times on him, with the new Indian update.

 

[passimakopoulos]

I honestly feel for everyone who is having serious problems with their new FTRs. As I stated in past posts I have had none of these issues and have no need or desire to get my ECU tuned. With 6500 miles on the clock my FTR is running great. I have not had a single check engine light or error code. It has never shut down while underway.
I often wonder if FTRs sold outside the USA in markets with stricter emissions standards (Euro6, etc.) and different gasoline blends just don’t run as well. I can’t imagine every Indian manufactured in Spirit Lake, Iowa is sent to countries all over the world with the same ECU calibration. Is it possible they just can’t give this 1203cc, high compression v-twin what it needs to run properly out of the box and meet the strict Euro6 standards?

I gave the bike today and had a quick chat with the head mechanic. he told me that this might be the issue.
fucking Europe with their fucking emissions standards!
I'm afraid they are not allowed to do that in Europe!

Indian headquarters sent some step by step instructions to do the testing on my bike.

the problem won't be fixed and I'm quite sure about it.
I wish I had the power vision kit tuner here to upload it tomorrow..

 

[Max Kool]

Euro 6?

Euro 5 is about to be implemented and afaik our bikes are Euro 4. I seriously doubt they would be able to find out if your bike was flashed, and it won’t fail any emissions test as long as the cat and carbon canister are in place either.

And afaik every FTR worldwide has the same tune (well ok, there is a newer one too). Do European bikes run worse? They can’t be flashed? Anyone in Europe ever “caught” at TÜV ot MOT?

 

[Murdock]

It is too early to talk about TÜV because this inspection happens first after two years (I don't know if this is also true for MOT). But I agree: The tolerance of the tests are wide enough to get no trouble.
I do not know it for the FTR but for my Buell there were EU tunes and US tunes of different kind directly from the vendor. And yes, this was because Emissions. Some of the dealers have installed US tunes and the bikes ran better with that.

But the cold stall issue seems to be a common one, right? And this IMU issue is not tune related I would say.

 

[K9F]

No emission checks on bikes in the UK with an MOT.....YET!!! So no issues here with regards to tuners!