Inertial Measurement Unit (IMU) - cold start problem and plenty diagnostic indications when reading the ECU
- Thread starter passimakopoulos
- Start date
Staedtler
Active member
Usually it's the density of the cat is higher for EU, maybe even the amount of active cat ingredients, but not sure on FTR. The drive cycle for the test may even be different meaning you have to get the catalyst to light off sooner for one test.
Also noise limits are different for US & EU. If FTR has different mufflers, then this would drive a different calibration. Emissions and noise all drive different tunes.
Also noise limits are different for US & EU. If FTR has different mufflers, then this would drive a different calibration. Emissions and noise all drive different tunes.
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I know the eu and aus calibrations are different. I’m not sure how much the actual tune changes. Ryan would be the guy to ask.
if the tune was that different then there would be two sets of power output specs.
The cats and the mufflers are also the same, since there aren’t separate part numbers
if the tune was that different then there would be two sets of power output specs.
The cats and the mufflers are also the same, since there aren’t separate part numbers
Staedtler
Active member
Full throttle performance is very different to the emissions cycle. It barely gets above 25% throttle when going through the test, if that. You can still play tunes (no pun intended) with fuelling and ignition to get cat's to light off quicker without changing rated power figures.
mark.lb
Well-known member
My point was the European Union sets standards on what goes in - “gasoline” and what comes out - “exhaust”. Those standards may differ from the regulations in the US. Until recently we had “summer blend” gasoline in Pennsylvania. It had a different vapor pressure (and cost more) than our winter blend. These factors and many more including “altitude above sea level” affect how a internal combustion engine runs. The ECU has a big job. It is a computer that must take all these variables in consideration. How the ECU is calibrated is critical. That sweet “Ryan Tune” ferraiolo1 is running in central Pennsylvania may make a bike run like crap in Switzerland or Australia.
It doesnt though, he has tuned ftrs all over the world. all are very happy with it, he just had to change the calibration to get them to read the ecu.
mark.lb
Well-known member
I agree with you - I meant no offense. Ryan is a expert. You personally own the most bad-ass FTR on the planet in my opinion. Ryan makes his living tuning motorcycles so they run great. This thread started because some forum members were upset with how poorly their FTRs ran right off the show room floor. My initial comment was, “ Indian may not be able to give the FTR what it needs to run great” due to a variety of factors. Most importantly strict government regulations. Indians fleet must meet all the regulations in every country they are sold. Their engineers are not dummies! They do not want to sell bikes that run poorly. They have to tune these bike to an acceptable level that meets the regulations where the bikes are sold. These tunes are on the edge and some bikes run poorly by our standards. Guys like Ryan and other Dyno Tuners can give the FTR the fueling it needs to run great. If my FTR was not running properly (up to my standards), I would most certainly seek out a aftermarket tune.
K9F
Well-known member
^^^^I 'thought' as you do that my FTR was 'running up to my standards' nevertheless after dipping my toe into the 'remote tuning pool' my level of acceptable standard has been raised so much higher! How wrong was I and I am not ashamed to admit it? The improvement to be had is profound and in hindsight it was long overdue!
Ferraiolo and Max both said it would be and it truly was!
Ferraiolo and Max both said it would be and it truly was!
mark.lb
Well-known member
Got it K9F!
But we are talking about buyers who just plunked down 15-20K for a shiny new FTR that won’t idle in the driveway on a 50*F day and stalls three times on the way to the pub to show it off. What was the Indian salesman supposed to do? Tell him/her - this is a great bike but because of where you live and the fuel they sell - you will need to spend another $500.00-$600.00 on a aftermarket tune (that I am not supposed to tell you about) before it runs normally....
But we are talking about buyers who just plunked down 15-20K for a shiny new FTR that won’t idle in the driveway on a 50*F day and stalls three times on the way to the pub to show it off. What was the Indian salesman supposed to do? Tell him/her - this is a great bike but because of where you live and the fuel they sell - you will need to spend another $500.00-$600.00 on a aftermarket tune (that I am not supposed to tell you about) before it runs normally....
Max Kool
Well-known member
Europe has different fuel blends for summer and winter too (for the exact same reason of course).
K9F
Well-known member
Truth is I don't give a flying fig about other buyers or lose any sleep over it! I am happy as a sand flea and that is what is important to me! IF the buyers are savvy enough and do their research adequately with all the information that is now readily available about the FTR's quirks and foibles both in the reports and on the forums they should be now going into this with their eyes wide open and know what they may be getting into? Many dealerships offer such service and will provide you with an FP3 and even install the maps for you.
I bought mine as soon as it was available and despite dragging my heels eventually did what had to be done to get it running how it should have done when it came out of the crate. I did expect issues as they invariably do raise their heads in first year production models. Dependent on where you get your tune from (I can only talk for my experience) your pricing is also somewhat a little inflated maybe?
We do not have different blends of fuel in the UK for different seasons. The rest of Europe has a plethora of different fuels available with different additives but as far as I know the blends remains the same year round.
There is no real point bleating about continual poor running when everyone knows there is not a current OEM Indian fix available especially when the owner is pushing their dealership for a prompt 'factory fix' without committing to an aftermarket tune. They know what needs to be done and it is only another paltry 2.5% of total outlay against your price of a new bike to get it to run so much better. Alternatively they can bugger off and buy a different make of bike whilst closing the door quietly on their way out of the Indian exit. Such debates are becoming dead horse flogging ones......same old...."It shouldn't be like this!" Well it is get over it!
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Max Kool
Well-known member
psst, sorry, but the UK has seasonal blends as well. Interesting reading.
Apart from that, I mostly agree with you. Get over it for 500 bucks. My bike just didn't run well before it was flashed with a tune, and the odd stall on a cold engine. But that was it.
However, the OP's bike seems to have it way worse with check engine warnings etc. I'm not surprised he's p'sed off and I can imagine he finds it hard to believe it's just the stock tune that's causing this. Imagine shelling out 500 quid for a tune and the problems do not go away... Check engine lights on a new vehicle are just not ok. Period.
K9F
Well-known member
Everyday's a school day Max. In 43 years of motoring I was never aware that the blends changed seasonally and neither did anyone else I asked at work. Thank you.
I wasn't commenting on the OP's post and apologies if that wasn't clear. The perpetual moaners that berate the brand, bang the same old drum and continue to state "Well it shouldn't be so" are becoming irksome. There are those due to their crappy dealership that are bound by what rubbish the dealership spouts or risk loss of warranty if they get a tune like the OP himself. I do sympathize in such circumstances where they don't have any other options.
If the OP can get the warning lights sorted it will still run erratic, I know it and so do you. Would you recommend he ditch his remaining warranty and still go for a tune? I know each case is different but with only a single dealership open to him and a stern warning his bike would be flagged I would have to consider carefully and weigh everything up if I were in his shoes?
I wasn't commenting on the OP's post and apologies if that wasn't clear. The perpetual moaners that berate the brand, bang the same old drum and continue to state "Well it shouldn't be so" are becoming irksome. There are those due to their crappy dealership that are bound by what rubbish the dealership spouts or risk loss of warranty if they get a tune like the OP himself. I do sympathize in such circumstances where they don't have any other options.
If the OP can get the warning lights sorted it will still run erratic, I know it and so do you. Would you recommend he ditch his remaining warranty and still go for a tune? I know each case is different but with only a single dealership open to him and a stern warning his bike would be flagged I would have to consider carefully and weigh everything up if I were in his shoes?
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passimakopoulos
Member
do you think guys that the s&s slip on that I have placed might cause the problem?
mo power vision tune has been uploaded due to European regulation.
Also, I have to mention that the bike is been tested all this week from the dealership mechanics and so far the engine hasn't switched off while the mechanic was driving it, they are instructed from Indian headquarters to check all the sensors one by one to be opened -cleaned and then placed back again to their original position. this Friday one of the tests that they did was to open the fueling - injection system- clean it because Indian believes that this might be the problem, they did that and after a short ride in the streets an error appeared on the screen mentioning the fueling system etc etc.that warning has never come up to me ever, so this is something new!!
ill call them tomorrow to see what my options are!
I'm very confused and disappointed
mo power vision tune has been uploaded due to European regulation.
Also, I have to mention that the bike is been tested all this week from the dealership mechanics and so far the engine hasn't switched off while the mechanic was driving it, they are instructed from Indian headquarters to check all the sensors one by one to be opened -cleaned and then placed back again to their original position. this Friday one of the tests that they did was to open the fueling - injection system- clean it because Indian believes that this might be the problem, they did that and after a short ride in the streets an error appeared on the screen mentioning the fueling system etc etc.that warning has never come up to me ever, so this is something new!!
ill call them tomorrow to see what my options are!
I'm very confused and disappointed